To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

You’re right it shouldn’t be. There should be a middle ground. Out of curiosity, what do you think would actually work and have the best outcome for the most people/society?

Another article shows that that particular schools is building a SEN area this year and taking on 60 more DC with EHCPs so I would image that headteacher cares about the education of SEN pupils and likely follows their EHCPs.

Personally I think a "house" system in schools would be far better than pupils being silo'd in forms and year groups. It would create a sense of "belonging". Not suggesting a free for all of massive aged differences in lessons etc., but mixing different ages in some areas, like sports, common rooms, etc could really improve things if done properly, to give the younger pupils more options for pastoral support, advice, etc., rather than having to rely only on teachers and other staff.

I saw/experienced the benefits of school clubs & societies back in the day, when they were more common, when pupils spanning several different age groups get together, do things together, etc. To some extent, we still have that with things like school plays that are often open to the "whole school" or choirs/orchestras, etc. Often you could really see the different age groups gelling and the younger ones becoming more mature by being around the older ones.

Yes, many pupils can experience the same at home with broader families, or in out of school activities, but lots don't have big families and may not do much outside school, and may not be musically inclined so not involved in drama and similar performances.

In my opinion (and experience) this is utter bollocks though. It's a bonkers bit of nonsense psychology and it's not how kids (or adults) actually work. Rebelling over little things doesn't stop anyone from rebelling over big things. Having obviously petty rules just makes even the good kids have less goodwill and less of a positive attitude towards school and towards the teachers having to enforce the rules.

You usually have to behave reasonably well to pass in the first place. In my country you only need to fail one subject to be kept back, but generally you're given a chance over the summer to prove you have learnt enough so its not that low.
One boy in DD's school is doing 8th grade for the 3rd time because of persistent absence which is behavioural really.

It honestly isn’t our teens have friends who are ASD/ADHD, they eat and debate and revise here and I always send a second pencil case in for one as he is usually underequipped (plus double money on cake sale days because he never brings any in). It takes a village to raise a child.

But they don’t tell females to get back to the kitchen or to fuck off, or go into the girl’s PE changing room and assault them, or take photos of other pupils on the loo, or bite or punch.

There are many kids being exposed to behaviour at school by other pupils that would be criminal in the adult world and that has to stop.

We have more understanding than some but after our eldest having been through 12 years of continues bad, aggressive behaviour from others and 10 years (and counting) with the youngster - yes sympathy wears thin. We have had to tutor ours through missed lessons, which is why their secondary schools were informed choices. Our children only have one shot at secondary education as well, and we are just as involed and passionate about our children as other’s are about theirs. Have our children ever disrespected a teacher or any member if school staff or visitors? No. Have they ever disrupted a lesson? No. Have they ever hurt, isolated or verbally bullied another child? No. They deserve an education as well you know.

Teachers have to put up from far too much shit from pupils. It needs to be easier to kick out problem kids to prevent the rotten few spoiling the whole barrel.

And what happens to those kids? Where do they go?

I get what you’re saying, I even agree on a particularly shit day at work. But what happens after?

A bit more realism on both sides for provision and attainment.
If a school says we just cannot right now provide all that is included on the EHCP, with documentation not without trying, they communicate with the parents on how to proceed. If a child needs a 1-1 TA they can’t recruit but could share a TA a third of the time say, the parents accept a 1/3 timetable, or full timetake 2/3 TA free. And the school accept the child will only be able to cover 1/3 of subjects?

Resuts tables are important to schools, perhaps they shouldn’t be, but perhaps by allowing some pupils to take say just English Maths Science, they could be parked as part of the league tables and they to only include pupils taking 7/8 or more GCSEs.

Another article shows that that particular schools is building a SEN area this year and taking on 60 more DC with EHCPs

The new unit on the Leigh Academy Minster site is not part of the school. It is part of Snowfields Academy and pupils are Snowfields’ pupils. Same academy trust, different institution.

a parent can wave an EHCP around as much demanding it be provided in full but if a school can’t hire another TA for love or money then what exactly can they do?

Ultimately, it is the LA’s responsibility to ensure SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F of an EHCP is provided. It isn’t optional and the duty is non-delegable. As LAs have been shown time and again, lack of resources, staffing and funding are not lawful excuses for breach of section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014. This is why when faced with enforcement action, LAs usually act, and if they don’t, JR proceedings will force their hand. When enforcement action is pursued, lack of resources, staffing and funding are never actual barriers to the SEP being provided. LAs can fund provision at a higher rate, potentially substantially higher, but they won’t do so unless forced. LAs often only start taking parents seriously and increase their efforts to provide the SEP when they see parents know the law and will advocate and enforce DC’s rights.

I think we would massively benefit from having academic highschools and technical highschools like other countries. Kids that struggle in the standard setup (for whatever reason) would learn a trade (mechanics, engineering, electronics etc) or transferable jobs skills(pedagogy, economics, accounting, food tech) and get an education too.

I think the concern with this is at what age you should really be deciding to send a child down one path or the other. The grammar school system is criticised for doing this, even though the subjects on offer in both pathways are largely the same.

@frozendaisy

I also want children to be protected from bullying and abuse in school, but exclusion is a disaster for some of the most disadvantaged children in our communities, and there's got to be a better answer.

Also, you pay lip service to inclusion with your 'some of my best friend's children have special needs' comments, but your contempt for children and families who are difficult for schools to manage is still really obvious from your posts.

I think that by 14ish it's usually quite clear where a young person's aptitudes lie. The issue in the UK is that we look down on vocational subjects. Which is ridiculous, because if we trained up our own skilled people, everyone would benefit.

@Nasrine

There should be support in place for DC who are excluded.

However, I don't think one child should be allowed to ruin the education of 29 others who want to learn.

In my opinion it offers more options , rather than a binary path. While I agree 11 is very early (in the countries i’m talking about highschool starts at 14, but they don’t know what path they’ll end up taking any more than 11 yos do), there’s the choice of where to go, there would still be in year transfers like now , 6th form or college would still be an option and then uni if that’s what’s wanted. Just because you start at the mechanics highschool, it doesn’t mean you have to stay there , or that you’ll actually become a mechanic. If we expect kids to spend 14 years in education, we should offer them more options, not less (one).

By 14, yes I agree. I was assuming 11 as that's when kids change schools, in England at least.

For me, it is the needing permission to take off your blazer. Especially when it's boiling hot and he teacher is up front in a summer dress and sandals. We never had to ask to take our blazers off, why has this become a thing?

@Hellomeee

DC need to ask permission to remove their blazers out of respect and also because they are part of the uniform, so the default should be that they are worn at all times.

No school will require blazers to be kept on in very warm weather.

In my country its done after 9th grade, when they're 15/16, seems to work well but perhaps 14/15 would be better. But we have lots of practical subjects in comprehensive school (they take up far more time than any other subject actually so plenty of practical work time for those who don't get on well with the academic subjects) so school isn't too much sitting still and listening.

And they can switch paths if they want to, even do both at once, so the decision they make at 15 isn't set in stone (if they can choose, that is. I think academic high schools require a certain gpa so some might not get in even if they want to)

I'm sorry "out of respect" wth does that mean? Respect for who or what? What absolute nonsense.

Who is it respectful to? Are teachers really worried about a child putting their blazer on the back of their chair at the start of the lesson? Seems a complete waste of time, kids should be in, sat down and starting class, not spending 10 minutes asking for permission to remove a jacket.

I am going from the age of choosing options.

In American high schools, students of different ages sit in class together and it's not a 'free for all'. Students all start high school with different abilities and attainment levels and schools slot them into tracks where their placement tests in English, math, and reading indicate they would perform best.

Respect for what or whom? How exactly does it show respect?