To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

When I was at school kids forgot equipment all the time and we just shared or schools had spare, it was never a big issue. What wastes a load of time is making it an issue - teachers checking whether everyone has the equipment and then dishing out punishments to those who didn't. Then all the kids who come in all enthusiastic want to learn and do well are made to feel really anxious that they might forget something next time and be similarly punished. And are not learning because half the lesson was taken up with checking and punishment and the disruption that caused. Then the rest of the time they are sat there not listening as they are thinking about being punished next time.

Then the teacher asks them a question and they can't answer because they were distracted and not listening. Then they get punished for getting it wrong or not paying attention.

In their next lesson they find another child has stolen their pen as they didn't want to get detention. So they get detention, other kids laugh at them for it. On the way to the lesson after that, even more distracted they get told off for walking on the wrong side of the corridor, and for looking at their phone as they forgot what lesson they have next.

The next day they can't be moved from bed as they haven't slept as they were awake all night worrying about the same cycle happening at school tomorrow, they hide under the covers and don't want to go in.

Just stop doing this shit to kids. It's fucking ridiculous and such a waste of time and potential.

I think most children respond well to a caring, structured environment where they are nurtured and supported to meet reasonable demands and clear expectations. Where they are accepted as individuals and humans beings with their own quirks that might make complying with certain requirements harder for them than other children, but they have confidence that they will be supported and encouraged to do so. Where they know that their comfort and wellbeing are being prioritised by the staff in charge of them. Where sanctions for poor behaviour are clear, proportionate and implemented with kindness and with the clear message that it is possible for the child to make better choices and that help is available if they are struggling and they ask for it.

If your school supports its pupils in this way, OP, then fair play to them for taking a clear line on rule infractions.

I ve voted YANBU, untill I see the rules.

Hear hear. That's what DDs' primary school was like. Then DD2 went to secondary school and it was like prison every day.

I think schools should be able to expel violent and dusruptive students, but not that the kids end up at home all day. They need to be in employment, education or training.

Many could benefit from being in pupil referral units, or special schools, with low staff student ratios and support workers so that the kids get support to turn things around before they end up in prison. It is more expensive in the short term, so my concern is that these kids wouldn't get the support they need.

But schools can't continue the way they are, with disruptive or violent kids stopping others from learning, and making the school feel unsafe.

I can’t wait for the lower birth rate to filter through to secondary level as there will be an excess of school places where I live. At the moment parents can’t vote with their feet (unless they can afford to go private). Virtually all the secondary schools in my city have been monopolised by a very strict academy trust. However, all of the other secondaries with sensible rules are oversubscribed with waiting lists…

I agree. But they can't go either on criminalising everyone for minor things then not actually dealing with bullying, sexual assault and all the serious stuff that goes on.

Oh great another ‘mysterious’ click bait opening post where the OP says something and then disappears until the appropriate number of baffled responses appear.

As other posters have said, the issue is whether the rules are reasonable and sensible, and the sanctions are proportionate, @Teachingquestion.

I would rather a school concentrated on the issues that can really impact the children's learning, rather than petty rules. So, for example, I'd rather that the uniform rules had some flexibility in them, but the children were taught to behave in class, and disruptive behaviour was firmly dealt with.

My dses went to a secondary school that had, in my opinion, a very sensible uniform policy - black trousers or skirts, white shirts, school tie, and a choice of black zip up sweatshirt/cardigan/v-neck jumper - the only stipulation was that the knot of the tie had to be visible - so a zipped up sweatshirt had to have the zip lowered to show the knot of the tie. PE kit was shorts and t-shirts/track suit for winter - the only rule was no football colours/strips.

We had moved to the area, and ds1 and ds2 had been in selective grammar schools with very strict uniform policies - that cost the parents an absolute fortune, so we were very happy with the new school's policies.

The reason that I have seen given for strict uniform rules is that it creates high standards that help to improve general behaviour - if the kids have pride in their appearance, they're likely to behave better - but in my experience, the behaviour at the schools with the strict policies, and at the school with the more flexible policy were pretty similar. The two boys who moved from the strict grammar schools carried on achieving academically at the same level they'd been at in their previous schools, and ds3, who did all of his secondary education at the more flexible school, also did really well academically.

This. Thirty children in a class; order and some form of discipline has to be instilled is learning is to take place. I know it’s not the fun and popular thing to say, but it’s true.

I think a lot of the rule thing is about making teenagers, who are by nature Rebellious and Determined to be Different, realise that in some situations, ie school and work, it is necessary to conform, and do as you are told! It is much, much easier to teach in a quiet, disciplined environment, and most pupils prefer it.

And when they do it every day?

Of course, there are no social consequences from the things I like.

And if I had gone to one of these schools as a mild mannered, polite, bright girl wanting to learn I think I'd have eventually turned to violence out of frustration and anger at the draconian environment. The pettiness would have driven me insane.

Insisting on strict uniform is just an unimaginative control thing, there's no better way to make teenagers think that school rules are ridicoulas.

My DSs school had a uniform, but didn't care what colour or length of hair the kids had, or whether their shirts were buttoned up, or whether their black shoes were actually black trainers.

Like in the workplace, it has no impact on performance.

What rules are the teachers happy about?

Im glad my DC are not in school anymore as some of the rules are utterly ridiculous.

Children to be lined up in blazers, no rain jackets or umbrella allowed, so children then have to be in wet blazers all day…. Some kids refused to wear their wet blazers and have been suspended!

Kid left their diary in there last lesson as teacher needed it for some reason…. Kid was suspended for not having their diary.

Child not allowed to go to the toilet with a kidney infection… has a doctors note but the school refuse the child as they “need” a consultant note… child wets themself and then they are bullied by their peers.

There is so many ridiculous “rules” that I don’t believe any teacher thinks these rules are reasonable, the trusts are to blame.

I wonder whether we will see a return to more child-centred education, as there is more space and schools unpopular with parents and children close. We live in interesting times.

Certainly, in the city we live in, we were granted our third choice on the waiting list for primary school and then were unexpectedly offered places at the first and second choice days before term began. These are schools that are traditionally very oversubscribed and we'd put as a bit of a punt as they were some distance from us. We stuck with the first school since DC had done all the induction by then, we'd meet the teachers and it had the best wraparound care, but certainly it brought home to us that none of the primary schools around us are presently at capacity and there will be closures in coming years.

In my child’s primary, kids were excluded during ofsted inspections to keep marks high…

either you have a uniform or you don't. If it's something you disagree with, pick another school.

I am happy with the best performing school in the area which funnily enough has a very strict uniform policy. I don't know or care if it's linked, but it's clearly working. Teens are not wild about their uniform, but being a uniform, they're all in the same boat so they just get on with it during school hours.

I am lucky enough to have only experienced workplace with a conservative dress code, and where people don't confuse the office with a beach club. Works well too!

There are so many work places where appearance does matter, as it should.

I hate the strict uniform rules. What about the kids whose parents either cant afford the full uniform or don't give a stuff about washing it/supplying it.

These kids often get themselves (and often younger siblings) up, dressed in what is available and off to school only to be punished for not having the correct shoes, etc. So they are being disciplined for either their parents not having enough money or their parents simply not giving a toss.

I don't understand why the UK is so obsessed with strict school uniforms. My kids both attended a primary school with no uniform and when they went to secondary school one went to one with a strict uniform code and the other went to one with no uniform. There were far more issues with the school with uniform than the non-uniform school. Teachers at the non-uniform school didn't have to waste their time checking that someone had got the correct style of trousers or shoes and could concentrate on the things that really mattered like behaviour and learning.

Exactly seems ridiculous agree with this. Dress code is becoming less and less important even in city jobs hardly anyone comes in suits anymore so there is a mismatch … as some others have mentioned uniform is not worn in many other countries it’s just a cultural thing here. Academic results are much higher in other countries where the focus is on teaching and values not imposing stupid uniform related rules.

how did they manage that? Ofsted always turned up with less than 24h warning in my local primary schools - cue urgent email that advising all afternoon clubs cancelled with 1 or 2 hour warning , so teachers could prepare 😂

How would the school just exclude the kids with no warning?

A uniform policy can be strict or flexible, though, @randomlemonsheep - as I said in my previous post, our dses went to a school with a more flexible policy, after going to ones with very strict policies, and I don't think the more flexible uniform policy had any negative effect on their behaviour or achievement at the school.

If a uniform policy is too strict, for a start, it can be very expensive for parents, plus it has no flexibility in it to cope with sensory needs from pupils with SEN - and then it demands that teachers spend far too long nitpicking details like whether a black shoe is a shoe or a trainer, or whether a particular style of trouser is acceptable, rather than focussing on issues which impact the children's learning - completing homework, listening in class, controlling disruptive behaviour etc.

Pretty much this.

Our DD forgot her phone twice last year, didn't have her pencil case one time and got a detention despite her friend offering a spare pen.