To be glad schools are finally hitting back

[Teachingquestion]

Over the last couple of days I've seen more stories about schools introducing new rules and sending students home who won't comply.
I'm in a really tricky school about to do the same (when we start back) and the staff are so relieved. Teachers on here : are you glad to see it?

Some of the schools on here sound awful. Then adults insist these are the best days of anyone's life. Just wept. Imagine the best days of your life getting shit from adults for wearing the wrong colour jumper.

I think secondary school leaders should try to create an environment that kids want to be in and are brought into. The current way many secondary schools are run is far too punitive.

If they were smaller like primaries then it would be much easier to establish relationships and not have to rely on draconian rules for order.

The kids who will be sent home / excluded are much more likely to come from poorer, unsupportive backgrounds and/or have SEN. And now there are basically no youth services, school is probably the only place they will encounter responsible adults and wider members of their local community. Who steps in when the school isn't there for them? There is no one else until they get in trouble with the law. Then it's too late.

It's a real shame we are so quick to get rid of them from schools, rather than invest in them and teach them in ways that are more appropriate. It really is moving the problem around and setting them up to fail.

Sure. We study at university level for 4 years, gather £40,000 student debt, work 60 hour weeks and tolerate truly abysmal behaviour, not to mention the BS from management and Ofsted JUST to feel that we can boss kids around.

Totally logical equation you've got going on there.

Just home school and be done with it if that is the respect you have for teachers.

I wish people would stop pedalling the "if you don't like the uniform rules pick another school" nonsense. The next nearest secondary school to us is 12 miles away in the next town.

And we've seen in the media that parents complaining about stupid uniform rules doesn't work either. Schools just put out statements effectively saying "tough shit".

I'm not against uniform. But ridiculous rules about having to wear blazers in 30 degree heat or having to remove a coat before you enter even if there's a blizzard outside are utterly pointless and only serve to be power trips.

My kids' school sanctioned for broken lanyards FFS !
AMongst other trivial stuff too !

we survived didn't we. I have great memories of my school, and it was a lot stricter than it is today.

But because there were more respect between kids and adults, the relationships were better, and it made 0 difference to our life to button our shirts and it's my mum who bought the right colour socks, I just wore what was in the pile 😂

Having parents making no drama about the uniform meant we didn't give a 2 seconds of thoughts getting ready and within the school walls.

Sadly some parents are too bored nowadays, and try to make themselves more interesting by pretending the rules shouldn't apply to their little darlings, when most kids don't care anyway. They wouldn't chose to wear a uniform, but it's there, so they just wear it.

I really hope this is a troll thread. There’s so much wrong in the education system today and a teacher thinking the solution is for schools to “hit back” at the students makes me want to cry for humanity.

Great, I'm glad you enjoyed it. It's vastly more common to hear people say they hated school.

Respect between adults and children in schools. They were belting children until relatively recently.

I really feel for teachers. They are there to educate, and of course that has some crossover with social issues but they're not bloody social workers! What about parental responsibility? What about the children who are having their valuable learning time hijacked by badly behaved children?

I’d be perfectly happy with no uniform but I do wish the threshold for exclusion for poor behaviour was reduced. Both of my kids have suffered due to poor behaviour of other children in their classes at various times in their school careers. There needs to be far more PRU type settings to support these children as it isn’t fair to disrupt the education and emotional well being of the well behaved children.

I am not a teacher, but work in a school. Sounds like you are one of those nightmare parents, always knows best. Never a good word to say. Go spend a day in your local comprehensive and see the daily abuse against teachers. Wonder what job you do…

Thank you! I'd love to be able to wear a GoPro in school to record the behaviour. Some parents would be mortified. Some wouldn't because it's how they behave themselves.

As a parent of an autistic PDA child, I would be happy for schools to preemptively exclude him if they provide access to a suitable education at an alternative place. Ideally with a high staff to pupil ratio and more flexibility to allow him to actually learn rather than be stressed out and anxious all the time.
Then the teacher in the normal school can get on with the curriculum unencumbered and my child can get (enjoy) a suitable education at his level.

I could be either describing a pupil referral unit or a private school, which are some of the places that ND children end up when they are unable to manage school.

I don't think they are tackling the right behaviours.

Disrupting a lesson, rudeness to teachers or other students, violence, should absolutely be dealt with swiftly.

However, what I'm seeing is more and more rules around uniform, children being punished for forgetting equipment (another way to label children with ADHD as naughty instead of in need of support!) or things like drinking water in the wrong place.

The focus is all wrong.

I think it depends what issues they are 'hitting back' on, @PretendToBeToastWithMe. Violence against staff or other pupils, bullying, intimidation - yes, the schools should be cracking down hard on issues like this.

Disruptive behaviour in classrooms - there should be firm sanctions in place, alongside the necessary support for pupils with behavioural issues - so that every child can learn properly, and teachers aren't having to prioritise crowd control over actual teaching.

More minor issues - like, for example, uniform niggles - far better, in my view, to have a more flexible uniform policy, so that the pupils have some feeling of control over what they are wearing, and aren't being picked on for minor issues that have no bearing on their ability to learn. I think teachers' work would be easier if they weren't having to police draconian uniform rules - and it would improve the relationship between pupils and teachers, which can't harm the learning environment either!

forgetting equipment IS disruptive! To the teacher, and to the other kids around.

It's just excuses after excuses, and it's other children who are forever penalised. My kids are not that bothered, but they are the ones who find it annoying that it's always the same ones messing around.

and my kids are far from being perfect students 😂

Maybe stricter, but stricter about more sensible things.

I went to a strict school where bad behaviour was really clamped down on quite quickly. But they also didn’t make it an unpleasant environment for otherwise well behaved children by insisting on bollocks like not being allowed to take your jacket off if it’s hot.

Link benefits with kids behaviour points at school
see how quickly things improve!

So the problems caused by the proliferation of pointless rules (including draconian uniform enforcement) are to be solved by ... more rules!

Genius.

This.

So teachers should just put up with everything?

We've had years of this and glad we are now done with it all. College has more adult environment and no uniform.

Serious assults ignored - a reluctantly agree uniform change/ or in DS case one that meant requirements but as more expensive option not the norm - go to head of year.

Many of the teachers I think were also fed up but didn't get back up from SLT.

When we moved to the catchment it was a very different school - very nurturing decent results and rising - head was force out few year in - couldn't move and no other school places locally and staff turn over been huge - it's completly different place with serioulsy lower results. It's not what I wanted for them - locked toilet insane rules around eating - huge disruption even in top sets.

Best bit is when they did uniform changes and try and insist uniform was always that - as if we don't have previous copies of the codes .

So like most PP it depends what the rules are and how uniformly they are enforced.

i recently moved to a school in a low income area. It’s in NI so there was a bit of a problem with loyalist paramilitaries and the school had a terrible reputation. We got a new principal the year before I arrived. His background is in retail management. He went to uni as a mature student and did his teaching qualifications.

He’s bloody amazing. He has rebranded the school - the name has changed and the uniform has changed. We have a school vision and a “way” or set of aspirations for the kids to live by. They are encouraged to take pride in their own development and surroundings. Everyone of us teaching staff run a club and so we offer before school lunch time and after schools clubs.
He started a PTA and goes to every meeting
and they raise a fortune for us.

He brought in 3 past pupils who have done youth work qualifications and they help is deal with the more challenging kids. The police have a liaison officer who is well know among our kids and every staff member offers the kids the respect they deserve when they live by the “way”.

nothing happened over night, but I can’t believe the change in the last 5 yrs. This year for the first time ever the applications exceeded the number of places we have in Yr 8.

The senior T&D club were helping the tech teacher fit out a campervan in their after school group and they were totally gutted to be finishing for the exams in May.

I really think exclusion is not great but a team effort with a strong leader is the way to go.

I would be the first one to raise hell and demand the right to wear their PE kit in a heat wave, I don't blindly agree with stupid rules, but there are ways to do it.

Sadly, the parents who think rules don't apply to them and have the most disruptive children don't even argue about sensible or reasonable points. It's such a waste of everybody's time.

Just read the previous post and yes our toilets are locked too. It is one problem we haven’t solved. We have a set in each of the two buildings which are in a high traffic area which are open during class time. I’d be interested to hear what others do.