To ask for some concrete examples of ways in which the world is ‘designed for NT people’?

[MaybeND]

I think I’m missing something as I’m just not really getting this aspect of neurodivergence which people keep talking about.

Such an unhelpful response

Someone asking for experience

You want change? You need to be willing to "educate" so people can see you experience

So fucking rude. Either engage with the post or don't. A forum is to share experiences. If you don't want to be helpful, fine, but you're being deliberately unhelpful to everyone.

Any suggestions of what to read are welcome.

Why come on a thread just to say that?

Why are you on this thread then?

I dont know what neurodivergent conditions you specificslly mean.

But one example would be if you have sensory processing disorder you could find uniform difficult to wear. So a world requiring uniform is not built for you.

A lot of 'the world' revolves around social communication so if you have a social communication disorder you might not fully understand what is said or how to respond. This can have real life consequences like delays is medication. My son had shingles misdiagnosed as he couldn't understand the questions or answer them in the right way. The world was not built for him. It was built for someone who understood metaphors, nuance etc.

One example is the education system: it’s designed primarily for children who can sit in large groups at desks and maintain attention on tasks for at least an hour at a time , even when topics aren’t particularly interesting to them. That is not easy for anyone of course, but particularly disadvantages children with Autism, ADHD and Dyslexia. . In the workplace , being a ‘team player’, being on time, being organised and knowing how to network all help people to get promoted. Again, not always easy for ND people. Just a couple of examples off the top of my head..

Social services, GPs, police etc assume ND people will react in a specific NT way and behave in a specific NT way when specific issues come up. When ND people don't, they label them as uncooperative when actually the ND person doesn't know that "we need your consent to do X" is a social cue that means "if you don't consent everything gets worse and we will treat you as hostile and/or you won't get what you need from this interaction".
There are many similar examples of things like this that I've seen, I see it often when ND posters post for help with Social Services or the police and responses have to spell out to them why it didn't go well, but if the services in question were more ND friendly then the issue wouldn't have come up.

Somethings I can think of/effect me:

Shops/cinemas/theatres/the world being loud, noisy places with lots of music and beeps and flashing lights
Places not clearly advertising things like opening times/policies which make it difficult for those with anxiety
"Accessible" hours being limited and often full
A lack of patience from other people when someone needs take a little longer or asks another question or is non verbal or is "too" direct
Places making sudden changes without adjustment periods or notice

Transitions are difficult. Your brain prefers consistency.

Now imagine a typical secondary school. Tutor time, lesson 1, lesson 2, break time, lesson 3, lunch time, lesson 4, lesson 5.
Each of those activities take place in a different location, with a different set of peers and a different teacher in charge.

Each day, the timetable is different, for either a week or a fortnight.

Every so often, the location or teacher changes with no advance notice. Or the whole day is different - sports day or a trip somewhere.

You find it really difficult but everyone around you is fine, you don't understand why. It's really tiring every day and you can't wait to get home. But when you do, there's school work to do that didn't fit into the school day. You don't want to do work at home, home is your relaxing space. You get in trouble for not doing work.

That's without even factoring in sensory difficulties, social and communication difficulties, executive functioning difficulties.

This is really, really helpful. Thank you,

I asked my psychologist (who is convinced I am autistic) and she just said ‘school.’ That’s seems very answer was a bit vague for me.

Oh and "if you don't make eye contact then you're hiding something" despite being uncomfortable with eye contact

Do your own reading I'm not here to educate you I'm tired of doing the emotional labour

All that bullshit comes from angry young American key board warriors..
It was a very common response during the black lives matter "movement"
Cute to see it tried here and very reasonably shot down...

To come up with your own examples you can think about anyone you know who is ND, think of a specific thing they struggle with and think how this works in the world.

For example, someone who struggles with noise might struggle with music playing in shops/restaurants. They might struggle with open plan living, large class/nursery sizes, open plan offices, excessive announcements at stations, volume level at the cinema etc. It's clear to see that the background noise level of life is set to NT. Lots of these issues might also impact people with hearing impairment of course as the world is also designed for able bodied people.

Job interviews often rely on being able to present your knowledge and experience in a particular way (STAR type answers). If your brain doesn’t work that way, or you need time to process questions then interviews become inaccessible.

New school buildings where I am are built to an open plan format, meaning noise leaks from one teaching pod to another making it very difficult to focus for ND kids.

I think "I'm not here to educate you" is one of the worst responses I see to people reaching out to try and understand

They don't want to read what "the books" say, they want to have experiences and facts from those living this daily.

They're reaching out to understand and for help and they get shot down.

Much more likely to push someone away from understanding than towards "doing their research"

I meant to say that that answer is a lightly edited version of what I got from ChatGPT - I think they are all good examples.

Another is that for some autistic people, reading people's emotions can be very difficult, leading to mutual misunderstandings. I have a ND child, and this is one of their biggest struggles at the moment.

Are you the only member of this chat forum though?

Or did you mistakenly think the OP addressed this thread to you personally?

If you are a potentially autistic woman, this may be helpful reading:

Https://autisticgirlsnetwork.org/autistic-women/

What an excellent response.

I would hope social services do not expect ND persons to react / behave in a NT manner. As a social worker (of over 20 years now) we recieve huge amounts of training around ND and specifically we MUST take any ND into consideration when working with families and must tailor our approach and support so that it is fully accessible for those who are not NT. It really is a key part of our role and any support, assessments and so on my be through the lens of ND, if that is the case. That means making adjustments, communicating in a way that is understandable and supports a person to process information etc. I am hyperaware of ND as a SW and so are my colleagues. I believe wholeheartedly that the world in NOT designed for those who are ND but there are agencies that are trying to make the world and services more accessible. For context, I am ND, as are my children and neither could manage in mainstream. In my experience, the school system is the worst - a one size fits all and not fit for purpose (for ND students). Only my opinion on course!

Thank you. There are some great examples here. I maybe should have said specifically that I’ve been thinking of autism but the responses relating to other forms of neurodivergence are interesting and eye-opening too.