To ask for some concrete examples of ways in which the world is ‘designed for NT people’?

[MaybeND]

I think I’m missing something as I’m just not really getting this aspect of neurodivergence which people keep talking about.

And they say those of us with Autism lack empathy

But equally, flickering and LED lights can be a nightmare for migraine and seizure sufferers.

I think the issue is that ND varies so much (I have Asperger’s but I can guarantee I have entirely different needs to another Asperger’s diagnosed person) that it would be impossible to accommodate everyone. So they have to go with what works for ‘the majority’ and everyone else has to slot in around it to some extent.

Of course it’s not ideal for ND people, but some things that help one ND person might not be useful to another, so it’s kind of an impossible situation really, isn’t it?

You simply cannot set up a world that is inclusive of everyone. It’s impossible. Someone will always be at a disadvantage.

I have no idea. Are you?

You can’t make a world that suits everyone, but you can, to an extent, allow adaptions so that people who struggle with the “norm” can cope a bit better.

It should (for example) be perfectly okay for adults to wear ear defenders, or for loops to be the norm. It should be okay for someone not to want to participate in small talk, or for someone to wear sunglasses indoors to help with the bright lights.

Oh absolutely. And I think those things are generally accepted, aren’t they? But they are things that can be done by the ND person themselves.

I’m thinking more about things put in place in a wider world context, rather than adjustments that an ND person can make.

Yet for me, also ADHD, exams are a dream for me. All the adrenaline channels my attention onto the exam paper. Nothing else exists. Coursework was horrendous, despite my best intentions I was absolutely not able to do it until the night before I had to hand it in. My geography course work at GCSE was literally done in the break time before each lesson and I fell apart with Art GCSE because it physically is not possible to finish all your portfolio in about 4 days before final submission. I thrive on that deadline/pressure situation but simply cannot start any piece of work 4 weeks or more before it is due to submitted. I've learned how to break it down into mini deadlines but only very recently once I started to suspect ADHD. I cannot work in quiet, I'm that weirdo who likes open plans offices because the background activity and chatter blocks out my brain's own meandering.

ND is very different from person to person even those of us with the same diagnosis.

@Pricelessadvice Yes. I suffer from migraines. Had 2 last week. I didn’t say that I expect the world to change for me; I merely answered OP’s question by giving an example that affects me. I deal with it by wearing glasses etc, curtailing my life massively, and suffering from migraines. That ok with you? Jeez.

Erm, why are you so defensive? I wasn’t accusing you of anything or being mean, I was merely pointing out that problems with lighting isn’t exclusive to ND people and that the reality is that there are so many conditions in life that could require adjustments that we literally could not accommodate everything.

That was all I meant. Perhaps I worded it clumsily.

I’m not sure I agree that they are accepted - allowed maybe, but people still judge you for it. See all the threads on here about “rude” colleagues who don’t participate in small talk, or school mums who don’t want to chat with the OP at the gates and who would rather scroll their phone or stand in silence.

I can’t cope with supermarkets but when I mention that to someone, they look at me like I’m batshit crazy when I say it’s because the lights cause me migraines or because the noise and clatter makes me feel physically unwell.

I don’t think society should adapt everything to meet my needs (obviously!) but I do think people could be a bit kinder and understanding about people who look or behave outside of the “norm”.

Oh being sent away to my room to “study” quietly on my own was a disaster, I would’ve been so much better doing half an hour at the kitchen table than three hours alone in my room.

I know I did say exams but I guess I mean the whole education system is… well, if ADHD was typical we wouldn’t have this system (in my completely pointless opinion!)

Glad you’re finding some ways to make things work for you now

Unfortunately humans are judgy, it’s kind of part of the territory, particularly when it comes to how people behave. It’s not ideal, but I’m not sure that side of things will ever truly change.

I can’t cope in pubs and noisy restaurants. Not helped by the fact I have partial deafness. A meal out in a busy restaurant is hell to me because I not only can’t hear properly, but I can’t filter out background noise and so I take in every snippet of every conversation around me that I can hear and I can’t zone in on the conversation with my friends. So I don’t go to busy restaurants or pubs anymore. I’m not sure how else I can get round that (or how I could expect the establishment to help me with this), but equally I don’t feel sad about it. It’s just one of those things that I recognise I have to miss out on.
I can generally cope with a pub lunch in a quiet country pub though 😀

I kind of agree but surely some things, like reducing clatter, glarey lighting and so on, benefit everybody?

@Pricelessadvice oh absolutely it’s human nature - I recognise it’s probably wishful thinking on my part 😂

I just wish people could accept “no, I struggle too much with that” as an acceptable answer.

Nope wouldn't benefit those do not cope in dim rooms or with silence etc.

I am not talking about one extreme to the other, just a moderation of the environment.....and no its not going to suit everyone but it might suit more people and not affect the ones wno weren't affected in the first place?

There’s a middle ground though, no need to go from one extreme to the other.

My daughter who starts secondary school in September

has
extra time and a scribe for her exams
allowed to wear trainers
has a stair lift being put in
laptop for all work
allowed to go toilet without waking when she wants in class
allowed to for a lay down at school if required
has a different chair than everyone else to sit in
has to sit at front of class
mobile phone in pocket when the reat hand theirs in to office.

and literally not a single one was moaned at 🤷‍♂️

Ok so we have diagnosed autism and dyslexia
probably with a bit of dyspraxia thrown in.

• shoe laces very very difficult - took years to learn
• school system filled with reading and gaining meaning from reading (if thou cant understand the question because the reading is difficult how on earth can you get the answer)
• timed exams and assessment
• large classes
• sports needing high scratch socks that cause sensory discomfort/ but we want to play the sport.
• 30 children in a class- the sound and overwhelm from that
• NT just intolerant of speaking directly- with ND seen as rude.
• Just the anxiety from knowing you dont fit in yet needing to fit into school/ workplace.
• insufficient school places to meet SEN need.
• the stimming that my son does (repetitive noises e.g clicking , movements) would be mocked in the outside world.

O and your special interests are so very interesting to you. However 13 year olds generally dont think that trains are the best so good luck with that.

The middle ground being what? I never mentioned extremes just what was recommended by others as being reasonable.

Not reasonable when you cannot see.

It might suit less people than before. It might put many at a disadvantage than before.

A best fit model is what we can hope for as ASD is a spectrum after all so it will certainly not suit all with ASD as it may harm some with ASD.

Yes me too - everything done at the last minute (or rather extensive research and reading around the subject and note taking leading up to a coursework or dissertation deadline, but absolutely needed the intense pressure of a fixed, non negotiable deadline to force me to sit down and write the final thing). Exams always suited me - I've always done well in exams.

This bit me when I studied abroad and had to write long papers in my second language though - I just couldn't produce the same standard of work without extensive redrafting and my study/ work/ brain style really was a poor fit. Writing in my first language my work produced under pressure is usually my best - not in my second language though.

I guess we all headbutt our limits at some point.

The world is designed for heterosexual white men. Not sure why you're trying to bring ND into it.

To your face

A couple of examples spring to mind for me. I have dyscalculia so dealing with numbers is a nightmare. I simply can't remember them and always write them down wrong, even when copying them directly. But there is a societal expectation that everyone can recall and process numbers - one time passwords, booking references, remembering licence plates, gate numbers and departure times at airports (have missed multiple flights), inputting dates when booking things (have bought theatre tickets and booked holidays for the wrong dates), forgetting birthdays and special occasions. Dealing with tax and vat returns takes AGES because I am terrified of writing down the wrong number. I also have no perception of speed and distance, so I've never been able to pass a driving test - again, something that is considered normal and 'easy'. My inability to remember numbers or drive means many people think I am an absolute idiot.