Father in law said he couldn’t come help us because he’d be too FKD

[Starlightbright200]

Hello! I’ve just hashed it out with my father in law but I feel like I need an outsiders perspective to know if I’m being overly sensitive or if this is behaviour to expect.

I recently gave birth to DC 3 a couple of days ago but it was whilst I was pregnant my FIL really pissed me off. My partner and him have a good enough relationship but they’ve definitely had struggles particularly since we’ve had kids. For my partner it highlights his dads absence and lack of support when he’s been really struggling. My MIL who is no longer with FIL is going through chemo and whilst she has always offered support we dont feel it’s fair to take it, knowing that she’s also physically struggling. Her partner is also useless and is a functioning alcoholic so she doesn’t have the best support herself. She is also based really far from us. My mum has helped us the most in the past and I would say she is our main support if we need it but she isnt that close by either, she is also 10-15 years older than my in laws and single. I’ve also found she doesnt actually like having to make the long journey and doesn’t always willingly want to help as she’s older so we try not to ask much. We are actually very self sufficient as we do so much ourselves and pay for nursery and baby sitters if we have the spare money but it’s never to do anything for fun it will literally only be for childcare whilst at work. In fact all of our family support is still just for this. I think in the five years of having kids we’ve been to the cinema once on our parents time. We’ve never done anything else!

My DH missed the birth of DC2 because we didn’t have childcare in place in the middle of the night and because of this we asked my mum to come stay with us until the baby was born 2 weeks before due date. A really big ask but she agreed. 2 weeks pass and we feel like she really needs a rest because she’s been helping out so much around the house whilst I focus on all the childcare and my partner is at work. We really want to give her some respite so we ask FIL if we paid for his train fare (because he’s used cost of travel a reason for not coming in the past and he lives 2 hours away) would he come for the weekend just so my mum can rest and come back. His reply was “sorry I can’t it’s my works end of year do and I will be out eating and drinking all day, sorry it’s not my fault it’s this week” My partner then said well could you just come on the Saturday morning instead and leave Sunday and his response was “sorry I’ll be too FKD” My partner sarcastically said thanks for your help and his FIL said “it’s not my fault it’s on the same day. Don’t wanna fall out with you over this”

Is this normal behaviour to expect? Were we asking too much? I personally was shocked by the order of priorities but also zero offer of an alternative day or week. we said absolutely nothing back.

fast forward to today..
FIL’s wife keeps in touch and asking about the baby but I feel resentful in wanting to share much detail because FIL hasn’t said checked in at all about baby’s arrival. I explained the birth was chaotic, my partner was worried the baby had died and that whilst we were all doing ok the journey here was quite traumatic. I kept asking why FIL still hadn’t called his son despite knowing this information so he sends me a message by way of her instagram saying he hasn’t heard anything for three weeks because he thought we were annoyed at him. I urge him to call his son himself and not talk to me about it. Hours pass and I have enough and call him and we hash it out. He says I’m not the boss of him, he didn’t want to not go to his work outing, he wanted to go to it and he wasn’t not going to go because he has plans. He then says more excuses as to why he won’t come such as I hate London, I hate trains. No one’s going to change me, I’m not gonna be the father he wants so we are never gonna be ok. I was thinking, he literally just wants you to visit!?! What the fuck is he actually asking of you that is so wild. He also said I’m not at your beck and call… this is the only time we asked you to come down and we thought the reason was pretty valid!?

when we go to where he lives, he is hands on with our kids and they really enjoy each others company. But that happens about 4 times a year. there is zero effort ever to put himself out or to come to us.

am I being ubreasonable in thinking he should’ve at least offered an alternative day he could do some heavy lifting instead of a 72 year old woman? Or is this a common mistake to think this way.

I don’t understand why you’d post on AIBU when everyone is saying yes you were BU and you’re not accepting it.

I only had 1 child because of the fact that I had no one to help and I knew childcare will be super expensive. I won’t put myself and my child in the situation that we won’t be able to enjoy life because we can’t afford to do things therefore I stopped.

you on the other hand continued to have kids and expect everyone to jump when you ask for help. Sorry hun but you are OTT

He has no obligation to you or your children
He might feel uncomfortable around small children
He might be ill and just not saying anything
He might have a very active social life and that makes him tired

He doesn't owe you anything, he's raised his children, your children are your responsibility

Op I’m going to offer an alternative view because as per usual MNS are out in full force to make women feel guilty for wanting or needing help during postpartum which btw is absolutely normal. In fact in a lot of cultures women go through postpartum confinement and grandparents help out with childcare, nourishing meals and nighttime so new mum can rest.

It’s no wonder that so many new mums are struggling with child raising because there is a huge rise in hedonism and less reciprocal support between generations.

I had tremendous amount of help from GPS and still do but less so as they have got older and it’s now our turn to ensure we go out of our way for the GPS.

What you asked of FIL is bare minimum and you are absolutely right to feel annoyed. I have said this in another thread that such grandparents then wonder why they’re sat alone in a hospital bed with no visitors.

No idea why OP is getting such a hard time. What is this obsession with having to be totally independent even during the tough times?
OP asks almost nothing on a regular level of any of the family but needed this to help in a potential emergency. Good god would you lot not do this for your DC?

Im more grateful than ever for my amazing mum, sisters and in laws who are there to help when we need it. It doesn’t have to equal taking the piss if you have people who love and care about you to rely on when you are struggling. I’d do and have done the same for any of them. Because we are family and we love each other.

OP he sounds a selfish arsehole. I’d not be bothering with him because sure as hell you can know he will expect all your help when he gets old and has hospital visits etc.

I disagree- not everyone is able to just drop everything because their child decided to have a family. Some people have to work, or have other commitments- especially if they live some distance away. Some people just don’t want to- they would in an emergency, but feel that their children should be able to cope day to day. And, realistically, most people do not actually need 24/7 live in support for weeks on end after they have a baby. Especially if they are couple, not a single parent.

I mean- do most parents seriously think they need a 3rd adult to come and live with them 24/7 for several weeks after they have had a baby? I don’t know many who would expect, or even want, that.

I would never expect my parents or PIL to be “at my beck and call”- they aren’t subservient to me because I decided to have a baby. I think that is a ridiculously entitled and absolutely horrible attitude to have. I’d expect my parents to be supportive and caring, but that doesn’t mean they have to do whatever I want.

And, in this case they have had someone at their beck and call for over 2 weeks. Someone they have managed to exhaust so much they felt they needed to draft in a replacement for a few days before she has to come back to be exhausted all over again. FIL had a pre-existing arrangement and even if it was going out to a works do and I would agree it doesn’t sound like something that it would be much of a hardship to miss, the point is he did not want to. I do think if it was urgent, he should have dropped what he was doing to help, of course- this was not an emergency, by the sound of it. It’s not terribly altruistic, but it isn’t that terrible either.

this is just so cold and depressing.

society has lost so much of its warmth and care. Caring for each other (which usually is most notable to and from those closest to us eg family) is one of the best parts of human nature. I feel sorry for this poster if this is your take on life.

YABU to expect him to suddenly change into a decent person. He’s clearly a rubbish man and father and has been from the beginning. Expecting anything more is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Your partner needs to decide whether he wants a relationship with the man he is - it’s clear he’s not intending to change. Personally I’d call it a day.

Even if FIL had agreed to come, he was asked to come on Saturday and go home on Sunday. He lives a 2 hour train journey away and the OP is in London so presumably there is also time needed to cross London to get to her.

So best case scenario he would have arrived Saturday around lunchtime and left mid afternoon on Sunday. As OP apparently needed two adults with her at all times due to the risk of going into precipitous labour, the knackered and exhausted 72 year old mum was only going to get about 12 hours in her own home after a long drive there and back. Hardly the respite OP is saying she needed!

Why could knackered mum not be told to put her feet up and totally relax from OP’s husband finishing work on Friday evening to him going back in on Monday morning. With not so much as a tea towel to be lifted and cups of tea and all meals made for her. Far more refreshing and if the baby did arrive over the weekend, she’d have had no school run to do and a much easier time of it

Honestly this is a real drama over not much!

@DonnyBurrito

meh 🤷‍♀️ it’s a risk I’ll take. I’m also aware I could be at my offspring’s beck and call 24/6 7 days a week every single day of the year and they may still fuck me off in my old age. So you know while I can still enjoy my life I will balance making both myself and others the priority. And you can just be a Martr if that’s what you so wish.

She has a husband. She is not alone or needing to be 'independent'.

She actually also did have her mother who for some reason she chose to run into the ground rendering her so tired, she had to go home, on a long journey aged 72.

Congratulations on the birth of your baby.
I'm sorry you feel your father in law isn't showing any interest in your family but I'm not sure why you need him. It was very good of your mum to come and stay so she was there to look after your older children when the baby was born. But your baby is here now so surely your mum can go home. You don't need your father in law.
Does your husband get paternity leave? Can't he take it now and the five of you can get used to being a family of five.

We see a lot on MN - 'Put your big girls pants on and say no' 'No is a complete sentence' 'Don't be such a pushover' 'That doesn't work for me - say that' etc.

People are allowed to say No back too,which is what your FIL did.

Works both ways.

Not specifically about this thread (although some elements can certainly be found in this one) but I think our demographic future is in trouble if you think MN is in any way a representative sample of the British mindset. There's a general consensus on here that as a woman:

-You can't expect any help with childcare - or even just moral support - from grandparents under any circumstances. Literally anything is more important than supporting you and your DC. There's no 'it takes a village' attitude for you here!
-You have to suck it up with excruciatingly expensive childcare; but can't have you scrounge off the state oh no. How do you make the money to afford it? Not our problem, because kids are a 'lifestyle choice'
-Fine, then you can't afford childcare so you stay at home. You can't be a vulnerable SAHM either because if you're in the evil clutches of an abusive DH, it'll be your own fault. But remember points one and two of course.
-Don't want kids because literally everything is against you if you do? Well, we don't want immigrants either!

I think we might have an issue long term...

I've been on this forum for many years and there was always this undercurrent but I miss the supportive voices that used to be much more prevalent in the past.

I agree 100% with this comment. Don’t have children and expect any respite, ever. Especially not a third. Some people just don’t ‘do’ babies - especially men. I don’t blame them and how you can’t see he’s trying to excuse himself for helping at all, is beyond me. Doesn’t make him a bad person.

Your FIL sounds awful, he seems like he's aware of that himself and isn't going to change. Hard to imagine someone failing to step up in that kind of situation.

I think you're being given a very hard time here. You clearly aren't expecting family to look after your kids, you've chosen to have a third and expect to deal with the consequences yourselves. This is a pretty one off situation particularly given the speed of your labours. Of course FIL should be making himself available.

But... Given you don't have family nearby I also think you need to set up other emergency options for this and other situations. You need reciprocal support from local friends and neighbours who you can call in the middle of the night if it's a real emergency. Longer term these people can also babysit, pick up your kids from school if you're running late etc, and you can do the same for them. This is incredibly important if you don't have family locally and will make your lives a lot easier.

You needed to ask friends. If your labours are quick you need someone local.

I had 3 or 4 friends on hand each time, plus my neighbours as a last resort.

If that really wasn’t an option you needed to accept that you might have to labour on your own and adjust your plans and expectations around that.

Expecting people to travel and stay with you ‘just in case’ is not normal or reasonable.

It’s sad your FIL wouldn’t help,out, we had the same when we asked once to baby sit for an hour in the evening when both kids were in bed and our meetings clashed for voluntary groups (scouts). He was only 1 minute away in the car. Never asked again.
I didn’t have my parents nearby but had a group of friends and we helped each other out especially for things like picking up from playgroup and school when we were starting back at work. It was very hard still though. Had a hubby who was away working for weeks at a time.
Take care and try not to let it upset you.

Shocked at the replies on this thread.

Mumsnetters would HATE me. My mum helps 2 days a week with childcare and MIL and FIL do 3 days a week.. AND they often do overnights on the weekends (2 toddlers stayed over last night).

And you know the craziest part part is???

They WANT too!! They ask to have them and pop over all the time even when childcares not wanted just to see us all.

All my friends have super involved grandparents too. Even ones who can't do childcare due to work will have the grandkids sleepover on the weekends and take them on days out.

Mumsnet is the only place I've seen grandparents help being frowned upon and seen as placing a massive burden on them. People literally brag about having 0 support and help and doing everything themselves unless they pay someone to assist. Anyone expecting any kind of help and support from their own mum and dad are shot down as if you've asked your parents to sacrifice themselves at the alter.

It's weird.

OP your not over reacting. If I was your DH I'd be really upset at his lack of interest.

There isnt a 'takes a village' outlook anymore since people decided that although they want 'help', that help is on their terms and doesnt involve wider society making comment or being involved in their parenting choices. Societies where the network around families and children is much more socialistic (not in a political way necessarily) also carry lots of intervention, some might say interference, in the family unit. That has pros and cons of course but UK society has largely decided it doesnt want me or you telling their kids off, or saying they need to do this or that or having expectations about how they or their kids behave. We see it all the time on here were grandparents are treated as child minders with any sniff of deviation from 'the rules' is threatened with no contact or 'supervised visits only'.

So that contract of the 'village' has been broken, it was very much like that up to perhaps the 50s, even 60s perhaps, but not now.

It’s shocking and disappointing that a freshly postpartum mum is being utterly shamed for asking for help from her supposed nearest and dearest. The attitude towards struggling mums is so rotten and apathetic that it is reflective of why there is zero support for working mums. They are overworked, overtaxed and overcharged despite the vital role they play in society.

Of course mutual respect and genuine appreciation are key to this. It's a great shame when things break down like you describe. But I guess that's the subject for another thread. I do worry that we will all be paying for the consequences down the line because it's not tenable as a society and, as usual, it's mostly women who pay the price. How can we hope for true equality if we don't have the support network to make our careers and family life work?

Read the post, OP is not a freshly postpartum mum. She is still in fact pregnant- or was at the time of expecting her mum and FIL to do xyz.

It sounds like your FIL has never been hands on support and he was quite within his rights to say no he had other plans. I would have prioritised my daughter/ grandchildren but he is not duty bound to do that. I think you need to accept you won’t have much family support and put other plans in place for the future. Not your fault but not theirs either due to health, age, location or being unwilling. I also agree that if you choose to have 3 DC they are your responsibility.

I believe hyper-individualism is a relatively modern trend in the West. Just a few decades ago, strong family support was much more common.
I'm not surprised that you're unconcerned about the declining birthrate in Western societies. Caring about that would require looking beyond personal interests and considering the future of the West as a whole.