To think a lot of women are “dating down” just to avoid being alone?

[ThatPeachLemur]

I’ve seen too many brilliant, beautiful women mothering dusty men and calling it love.

Yes yes yes!

100 years I would have had no choice. Just selected one of the men that liked me and forced myself to pretend to like him to avoid Old Maid status.
I don’t have to do that now

Me too, ladies. 62, single for 11 years, living happily with my dog. CBA.

@JHoundI don’t even think my mum’s generation had much of a choice either.

I don’t have children so probably would have been burnt at the stake for being a witch I’m sure.

How many women still get called a crazy cat lady!

I mean JD Vance has said it A LOT!

In real life I rarely hear it.

@JHoundit’s been said to me in real life. I don’t think people realise what they are saying tbh and just spout it like it’s the ultimate insult and going to be enough to make me see the error of my ways 😂

Well I wasn't born with this opinion, I got the idea from men! 😉

Me too! I have 5 cats and get it a fair bit - but I like my cats - I’d rather share my life with them than a man

As for man hating - do people (men) ever ask why? If it’s hateful to refuse to settle for a man that enhances my life 0% then that’s fine by me

How can we educate our male children so they can grow up to be better

I think this is an important distinction. When women hate men generally leads to them just not want him to have romantic partnerships with them. Which hurts nobody.

When men hate women typically results and abuse violence which hurts many.
No, I am not saying that man hating is okay. But if the only impact is a woman choosing to remain single, I really don’t care that much.

Yep, this.

Oh look, a strawman argument. How clever!

You can, of course, choose who you want to share your life with or not. That's not hateful.

Claiming that men as a class are "Unable to clean themselves, their clothes, look after themselves, cook, exercise, family and friend responsibilities etc" is very different and hateful.

How does being unable to clean yourself, unable to run a household, unable to maintain your finances lovable? I ran into a fair share of men unable to do any of these basic life activities. Doesn't mean I hate them an dI don't think the poster does either, I just want them to go elsewhere, a shared house perhaps?

Hateful is sending women rape threats online, resorting to actual violence. It is so common it doesn't even make the news anymore. If you can name a single woman who has resorted to the same, and it makes the news, it is because it is so rare. Socialisation mostly, as I do not believe in biological determinism where hormones determine all behaviour. Since it is socialisation, we, and you, can do something about it. What have you done to reduce violence agains women?

Do men really need your ardent support for being called a bit useless by women?

Another strawman! How delightful.

Once again for those who are having trouble understanding basic concepts - identifying unattractive and infantile characteristics in a group of men is not hateful. It's a simple statement of fact. Claiming that men as a class all possess those unattractive characteristics is a hateful thing to say as well as being factually untrue.

I have known a number of women with significant and damaging alcohol problems. That's not hate speech, it's a simple statement of fact. But if I were to claim that women as a class are drunks then that would be a hateful thing to say and factually untrue.

Is this really such a difficult concept?

Not wanting to have children is one of the best things that can happen to a woman. You will always have more choices and more freedom if you are not in thrall to a biological urge.

Thanks for mansplaining…

@FluffykinsTheFerociousFeralFelineFury I do agree with you about the biological urge - it definitely impacts choices (or lack of them), particularly when a woman gets to a certain age and all they want is a baby. (This is not a criticism- I’m grateful I didn’t have to contend with that to be honest.)

I mean there are plenty of statistics to show the percentage of violent crimes including domestic abuse that are committed by men Vs women. There are studies about the percentage of domestic chores where women are far more likely to be completing them than men.
I'm not saying men as a class are violent, lazy people. But there are more of them Vs their equivalents in women.

So it stands to reason why there are plenty of women opting out of relationships because it is harder for a woman to find a kind, competent man who shares domestic chores etc than the other way round

I have had my experiences in dating men who are useless and have been lucky to find a man who adds to my life rather than drains me financially or emotionally. Many women would feel lucky to meet a man like that, but many men can find a woman that meets the same criteria far easier.

If you could pull statistics to show women are commonly alcoholics and men very rarely so, then crack on but it's unlikely.

No-one is saying all women are perfect and saintly. But there is a big enough proportion of men that are useless that dating them with a long term relationship in mind is becoming unappealing to a lot of women. Alternatively some have dated so many useless men, they start to think it's unrealistic to find a good one and settle down with a person that doesn't really deserve them

Note that "a fair share of men" does not equal all men, no matter how hard you want to interpret my statement as such. My statement also did not constitute a straw man technically speaking, more of a point that you disagreed with. And EVEN if I would have stated that ALL men are a bit useless as a class of human, that is not an example of hate, since men are not a protected group. If I had said the same about trans women, people of Jewish descent, then you might have had a point, since all these are bearers of one or more protected characteristics. Of course you can be hateful in other ways, but I deem "some men a re a bit useless" not in that category and not enforceable if a complaint was made. But, please have a go and let us know how you got on?

In sum: a) I didn't say my point applied to all men, and b) it wasn't a straw man, merely a statement of my experience, and c) "men as a class" is not a protected group. As an aside, the average reading age in the UK is 9-11 years old (cf. readability.ncldata.dev/). Where in that range do you think your reading ability falls?

The women I know who have ended up in terrible relationships all experienced a lack of love and attention from their parents. A lot of them also seem to interpet a lack of drama/jealousy and sometimes outright abuse as a lack of love from a man. There's also sunk cost fallacy; the longer a relationship has gone on, the harder it is to leave.

@Beesd don't worry, my reading age is sufficient to recognise when a strawman argument is being attempted.

@MyQuirkyTraybake described men as "Unable to clean themselves, their clothes, look after themselves, cook, exercise, family and friend responsibilities etc". That is what I've been addressing. You, and others on this thread, have now attempted several times to distract attention against that piece of bigotry by making different and much more measured complaints about shitty men. And then you try to insinuate that my distaste at MyQuirkyTraybake's statements is actually distaste for what you said. How disingenuous of you.

So tell me - what do you think about how MyQuirkyTraybake described men as a class? Do you think it's acceptable or not?

Someone’s butt hurt

Men are smelly.