AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

[Elephantiner]

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

She is right. I don't often agree with her, but she is correct on this.

Plenty of people agree with her and even if they don't they shouldn't be abusing her

You could just imagine the furore, if a Jewish person had minimised other forms of racism. As usual, however, the Jewish community is the battering ram. I getting just a bit bloody sick and tired of witnessing it.

Plenty of people also disagree with her. They shouldn't be called a racist for doing so.

Agree. Make a point without minimising Jewish persecution and experience.

It was a particularly obtuse comment given the Labour Party is known to have had a serious problem with antisemitism in the recent past. It is the only political party in the U.K. that has needed to be subject to an investigation by the Equality and Human Rights Commission, which came after it failed to respond adequately to the recommendations of its own investigation by Shami Chakrabati.

But surely, as even this thread has demonstrated within the first few posts - you do not have to SEE someone to to be racist towards them.

Their behaviour is grotesque and terrifying. But so is firebombing synagogues, which won’t affect you if you’re not Jewish. I don’t really understand the choice that both you and DA seem to be making to just ignore forms of persecution that don’t affect you personally. I can understand why they wouldn’t matter as much to you, but I can’t really understand why you would act as if they don’t exist.

But what she originally said, which she says she doesn’t regret, was that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people experience "prejudice that is similar to racism", and then compared that prejudice to prejudice against redheads.

Do you also believe that all Jews are white?

@ThatNimblePeeryou put it well.

As someone who grew up a ginger kid and then married a Jewish person and now has Jewish children, I can tell you there is no way you can compare the experience of ‘prejudice’. Being ginger doesn’t make you lie awake at night worrying about how your young children will cope with hearing about the Holocaust, about Jewish people being terrorised and murdered in neighbouring European countries, about “friends” in Facebook posting ‘Hitler was right’, about gangs driving through Jewish areas shouting shouting “Fuck their mothers, rape their daughters’ , about armed security at synagogues, drills for violent attacks at Jewish schools, terror plots in the UK on Jewish targets. (I could go on). None of those things are remotely comparable to the experience ‘prejudice’ of being ginger! It’s a ridiculously offensive. I can’t understand the people who think she’s right on this, it just seems like misplaced loyalty, or a complete lack of understanding maybe?

I totally agree but wonder if your post will be allowed to stand x

Beautifully summed up.

People have every right to talk about their personal experiences or racism, but they have no right to demean experiences of other ethnic groups. A hierarchy of racism is frankly ridiculous, and her comments to Jews are Anti-semitic.

Biggest laugh is that the left are normally the loudest shouters of racism!

Because I’m not illogical.

I hope pp who have said she is right read this and try to take it in.

Thank you, I do see your point. And the friend I was thinking of is dark, the racist scum bag thugs in the riot, would probably think he was a bit too 'Arab looking to pass as white. I do see what you're saying.

I honestly don't believe she is antisemitic, and the irony is Jewish allies were central to the US black civil rights movement, as they found common ground.

I accept she could have articulated it much better, and as a black person, it felt she was speaking directly to me, she often does that, doesn't filter her talk for a non-black audience, lots of white MP's don't filter their talk to anyone outside of a white audience.

I think the visibility of black people during a rise in the far right ( like we are living through now) we are the most visible, when the thugs take to the streets, we are the ones they see ALWAYS, rather than SOMETIMES. And its an important point.

I don’t agree and hope this won’t be allowed to stand, accusing people of enjoying playing the victim when they talk about how prejudice has made them feel is always gross IMO. You can disagree with someone, strongly, without making that accusation.

Quite ironic, given that she's batted one minority group off against another.

That is a really racist thing to say

Sometimes it’s like black people enjoy playing the victim too much,

I knew you were in there @Livelovebehappy 😂

As a Jewish person, I have experienced racism, because of the way I look. My children have been verbally abused and threatened with physical violence in public, most recently in the past month, and my children experience constant Anti-semitic at school. Anti-Semitism is endemic in London currently, with weekly hate marches which makes the majority of zone 1 unsafe for Jews.

My family were murdered in the Holocaust for being Jewish, despite not being religious. It was down to their race. The survivors then experienced death threats and had to leave their country. They left with only the clothes on their back.

Prior to this, their relatives were murdered in pogroms.

So yes, we do experience racism.

I cannot speak for her experiences of racism , and nor can she speak for mine.

I don’t think she is anti-Semitic either, same as Corbyn, problem is they were both at the top of the Labour Party when the accusations intensified and they didn’t act fast enough or with enough strength to refute those claims, so they will follow them round like a barking dog.

I absolutely get what she is trying to say, and I agree that she should be saying it, I think she just worded it badly.

I am sorry for everything you’re going through, everything anyone is experiencing. These are really frightening times and it feels like it’s only going to get worse, which pray I am wrong about. I feel like if we could remove Trump from government and have someone stable then all the bastards around the world would pipe back down a bit. Instead we’re possibly getting Farage.