Page 9 | AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

Elephantiner · 2025-07-17T13:18:00+00:00

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here? Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

ThatNimblePeer · 17/07/2025 22:39

Doubtmyselff · 17/07/2025 22:24

Thank you, I do see your point. And the friend I was thinking of is dark, the racist scum bag thugs in the riot, would probably think he was a bit too 'Arab looking to pass as white. I do see what you're saying.

I honestly don't believe she is antisemitic, and the irony is Jewish allies were central to the US black civil rights movement, as they found common ground.

I accept she could have articulated it much better, and as a black person, it felt she was speaking directly to me, she often does that, doesn't filter her talk for a non-black audience, lots of white MP's don't filter their talk to anyone outside of a white audience.

I think the visibility of black people during a rise in the far right ( like we are living through now) we are the most visible, when the thugs take to the streets, we are the ones they see ALWAYS, rather than SOMETIMES. And its an important point.

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There has to be a difference between ‘not filtering talk for a non-black audience’ and ‘ignoring the holocaust’. If you’re doing the latter, you should be filtering a bit more.

I don’t know how you’re defining black, but it’s demonstrably not true that no person with black heritage has ever been perceived by white people as white, although I totally accept and agree that will be a very small number of cases.

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 22:39

Longingdreamer · 17/07/2025 22:36

As a Jewish person, I have experienced racism, because of the way I look. My children have been verbally abused and threatened with physical violence in public, most recently in the past month, and my children experience constant Anti-semitic at school. Anti-Semitism is endemic in London currently, with weekly hate marches which makes the majority of zone 1 unsafe for Jews.

My family were murdered in the Holocaust for being Jewish, despite not being religious. It was down to their race. The survivors then experienced death threats and had to leave their country. They left with only the clothes on their back.

Prior to this, their relatives were murdered in pogroms.

So yes, we do experience racism.

I cannot speak for her experiences of racism , and nor can she speak for mine.

🫂

TizerorFizz · 17/07/2025 22:39

She simply doesn’t learn. She’s worded it badly has she? Again? Repeat performance again! She needs to go.

SharonEllis · 17/07/2025 22:40

Fradishes · 17/07/2025 22:21

As someone who grew up a ginger kid and then married a Jewish person and now has Jewish children, I can tell you there is no way you can compare the experience of ‘prejudice’. Being ginger doesn’t make you lie awake at night worrying about how your young children will cope with hearing about the Holocaust, about Jewish people being terrorised and murdered in neighbouring European countries, about “friends” in Facebook posting ‘Hitler was right’, about gangs driving through Jewish areas shouting shouting “Fuck their mothers, rape their daughters’ , about armed security at synagogues, drills for violent attacks at Jewish schools, terror plots in the UK on Jewish targets. (I could go on). None of those things are remotely comparable to the experience ‘prejudice’ of being ginger! It’s a ridiculously offensive. I can’t understand the people who think she’s right on this, it just seems like misplaced loyalty, or a complete lack of understanding maybe?

Very well put.

MidnightScroller · 17/07/2025 22:45

I agree with her on this too. It’s entirely different to be prejudiced “on sight” eg due to race or sex - for one thing it must be more prevalent because any stranger can see what race/sex you are without you opening your mouth, unlike lots of travellers/Jewish people where you’d need to have disclosed this information first (although some are more visible).
I don’t think it’s anti semitic to say that however likening it to ginger haired people is bizarre and wholly inappropriate

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 22:50

MidnightScroller · 17/07/2025 22:45

I agree with her on this too. It’s entirely different to be prejudiced “on sight” eg due to race or sex - for one thing it must be more prevalent because any stranger can see what race/sex you are without you opening your mouth, unlike lots of travellers/Jewish people where you’d need to have disclosed this information first (although some are more visible).
I don’t think it’s anti semitic to say that however likening it to ginger haired people is bizarre and wholly inappropriate

So what about Jewish people, who dont identify as white?

IncyWincyEyeroll · 17/07/2025 22:51

RareDeer · 17/07/2025 21:19

Because suggesting that no one can ever tell if you’re Jewish or a traveller is either ignorant or badly worded. Considering she is so highly educated, I am assuming it’s the latter.

That letter comes across as though she is specifically saying black people endure worse that others based upon instant prejudice - yet other groups do suffer from instant prejudice. She can speak on behalf of her own experiences, but to suggest that others don’t suffer from instant prejudice is utterly ridiculous.

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Ah I see what you mean - what I was saying is that I think she genuinely believes it (in the sense of she believes people can choose to hide their jewishness/Irish traveller ethnicity, whereas she doesn’t have that “choice”) and also that it’s malign on her part. Being highly educated is not a defence against having personal blind spots. I think people are defending her by saying it’s “just badly worded” and I really think that’s a cop out - it’s what she thinks, she believes being Jewish or an Irish traveller is, when push comes to shove, more similar to being red headed than to being black, and she believes that because she thinks (like many in her political group within labour) Jews don’t really count and more broadly there is a hierarchy of racism.

TheGrimSmile · 17/07/2025 22:51

Yanbu. She's right. But she will be vilified for it as she always is.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 17/07/2025 22:51

Well if they aren’t white, they can be subject to residue on sight.

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 22:53

TheGrimSmile · 17/07/2025 22:51

Yanbu. She's right. But she will be vilified for it as she always is.

She's always vilified? So you believe she should be untouchable because she's a POC? That's as condescending as her own ignorance.

Mayve · 17/07/2025 22:53

How can racism be more overt than the Holocaust??
I mean surely that’s got to be the purest expression of racism there has ever been. Nothing similar has been done to black people because of their race, by another race.
She’s just plain wrong. It’s just another way to minimise the deep racism and prejudice Jewish people have always experienced and I don’t know why people keep bloody doing it.

User37482 · 17/07/2025 22:55

I’m an ethnic minority and I think anti-semitism is a unique sort of prejudice. No-one has genocided my people and then blamed me afterwards for it. I don’t think you could get away with a lot of the stuff implied about Jews regularly if you did against my people.

I think a thug on the street may more readily identify me than a Jew but I also think I don’t feel the kind of hatred that many Jews are feeling right now. That’s in Europe, america, the arab world. No wonder so many Jews are so fiercely protective of Israel frankly.

We have become tolerant of a level of anti-semitism in the west that is frankly despicable. How many times are Jews in the news for criminal activity and terrorism? What is the hate based on? None of my places of worship require security, not a single one.

RareDeer · 17/07/2025 22:55

IncyWincyEyeroll · 17/07/2025 22:51

Ah I see what you mean - what I was saying is that I think she genuinely believes it (in the sense of she believes people can choose to hide their jewishness/Irish traveller ethnicity, whereas she doesn’t have that “choice”) and also that it’s malign on her part. Being highly educated is not a defence against having personal blind spots. I think people are defending her by saying it’s “just badly worded” and I really think that’s a cop out - it’s what she thinks, she believes being Jewish or an Irish traveller is, when push comes to shove, more similar to being red headed than to being black, and she believes that because she thinks (like many in her political group within labour) Jews don’t really count and more broadly there is a hierarchy of racism.

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I get you, I also read you wrong!

And no, not defending her and her letter at all. I’m trying to give her the benefit of the doubt when I say ‘badly worded’, to be honest. Ignorant is probably a better reason. I don’t think it’s worse than that, I hope it’s not worse than that. She has said some amazing things during her time, and she has also said some complete and utter bullshit. I understand why she is so divisive.

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 22:58

Not at all, she's obviously right.

The press and, well society as a whole, just hate Black women with a voice.

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 22:59

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 22:58

Not at all, she's obviously right.

The press and, well society as a whole, just hate Black women with a voice.

🙄

pucksack · 17/07/2025 22:59

You can often spot a traveller without them talking...what about hasidic jews?

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 23:00

Mayve · 17/07/2025 22:53

How can racism be more overt than the Holocaust??
I mean surely that’s got to be the purest expression of racism there has ever been. Nothing similar has been done to black people because of their race, by another race.
She’s just plain wrong. It’s just another way to minimise the deep racism and prejudice Jewish people have always experienced and I don’t know why people keep bloody doing it.

I love when people rewrite history to exclude colonialism and slavery.

Bravo.

Davros · 17/07/2025 23:01

I don’t particularly like her but I kind of admire her. I think she’s been treated appallingly

SharonEllis · 17/07/2025 23:01

User37482 · 17/07/2025 22:55

I’m an ethnic minority and I think anti-semitism is a unique sort of prejudice. No-one has genocided my people and then blamed me afterwards for it. I don’t think you could get away with a lot of the stuff implied about Jews regularly if you did against my people.

I think a thug on the street may more readily identify me than a Jew but I also think I don’t feel the kind of hatred that many Jews are feeling right now. That’s in Europe, america, the arab world. No wonder so many Jews are so fiercely protective of Israel frankly.

We have become tolerant of a level of anti-semitism in the west that is frankly despicable. How many times are Jews in the news for criminal activity and terrorism? What is the hate based on? None of my places of worship require security, not a single one.

Exactly. All Jews whether whether immediately identifiable on sight or not suffer racism in that their lives are impacted by it. Pretty much every Jewish organisation, even a jewish event, has to have some level of security whether its a school, a cultural centre, a museum, or a synagogue. They have to spend time evaluating risk, they have to spend money on security systems and guards and they have to live with tbose restrictions as a part of life. And this was true long before 7 October. And Diane Abbott knows this because she has a significant Jewish population in her constituency.

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 23:01

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 22:59

🙄

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rolls those eyes right back at you

Thanks, I have my own and don't need those at all.

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 23:03

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 23:01

rolls those eyes right back at you

Thanks, I have my own and don't need those at all.

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Well, I hope you can explain why Reeves and Raynor get so much criticism. Last time I checked, they were white.

huffdragon · 17/07/2025 23:04

As a Londoner, I can say with all honesty that I’ve never seen a Traveller as far as I know and I’ve lived here for 50 years.

User37482 · 17/07/2025 23:04

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 22:58

Not at all, she's obviously right.

The press and, well society as a whole, just hate Black women with a voice.

Oh come on, i’ve been spat on by racists and I think she’s just got a problem with Jews. Wear a kippah in public and you are going to get shit from every arsehole who passes you.

SnacksAndChaosThanks · 17/07/2025 23:04

Dangermoo · 17/07/2025 23:03

Well, I hope you can explain why Reeves and Raynor get so much criticism. Last time I checked, they were white.

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LOL. K.

pucksack · 17/07/2025 23:04

I'm a Londoner & have