AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

[Elephantiner]

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

So why the attack on James Abbott Thompson?

There is no suggestion he is doing crystal meth. LinkedIn says he’s a consultant at Heward Mills and a Strategy Consultant at Protect Black Women.

Yep that was me. No one else objected.

She didn't talk about the lack of allyship, she diminished the experiences of other minorities.

Once again, why can we agree that all forms of racism are bad, and that trying to construct a hierarchy of racism, or to diminish the experiences of certain minorities, is counter productive? It's really simple.

I agree all forms of racism are bad. I’ve been subject to racism, I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, black, white, Asian, Muslim, Jewish, Travellers.

And no one’s experience should be diminished.

We come back to the point about systemic, structural and institutional racism that black people face.

Fair enough.

The irritating thing about Diane Abbott - to me, at the time - was that she pretended her choice was between sending her son to private school or him being dragged into a gang lifestyle. As if he wasn't always going to lead a life of privilege. As if the only option for state educated black boys in Hackney 20 years ago was to join a gang. Such low expectations. It's hardly surprising that people point out he has got a criminal record, that he was arrested for assaulting emergency workers, because she made such a song and dance about him needing an expensive private education. This instance, in my view, is all about the context.

Actually the other annoying thing is that Abbott attempts to sow such division when she represents the borough of Hackney. My Hackney childhood was the best you could hope for because all our neighbours were from all over the world. People knew each other, they helped and supported each other. Nobody played Oppression Olympics, nobody denigrated each other's experiences like Abbott does. It was truly a melting pot of people getting on. She is just so tone deaf in her continued attempts to pit people against each other when the Hackney of my childhood and youth couldn't have been further away from that standpoint.

So your reaction to a young person dealing with fear of antisemitism is to tell them you don't think they're a real Jew anyway?

You have serious problems.

Then we can agree that we shouldn't be comparing different forms of racism, and can acknowledge that other groups have suffered from systemic, institutional racism, as well?

Unfortunately there are many posters here who have diminished others' lived experiences, and their ethnic group's historical experience of racism. Competition over who has 'suffered most' is counterproductive.

Do we know what schooling options she had at the time? I’m not familiar with Hackney so can’t comment.

Her son got 11 A*s and was fast tracked an a graduate through the diplomatic division. He is now in a good career and also a consultant for a charity helping black women.

In the 2022-2023 academic year, just 4.9% of students from the Black Caribbean ethnic group achieved at least 3 A grades or better at A level, which was the lowest percentage among all ethnic groups except for Irish Traveller and Gypsy/Roma.

In GCSEs, 59% of Black pupils achieved a standard pass (grades 9-4) in English and Maths combined in 2018-2019, which was the lowest rate among all major ethnic groups.

I can’t blame her prioritising her son over other people’s opinions.

You at 19:44 today
"As someone who is both Black and Jewish (among other ethnic backgrounds), I’ve experienced firsthand how conversations about racism can feel tiered. In my lived reality, anti-black racism is often dismissed, especially when it comes to historical trauma"

You at 20:13 today
"I may not be Black or Brown"

How did you go from being Black to not Black in half an hour? Am I getting confused here....?

I can see your clearly trying to be funny. I clearly stated I am mixed race. A person who has black, jewish and other ethnicities is mixed race.

Yes I do, I lived in Hackney and most of my children were born there. She had the same choices as the rest of us including my black friends with sons. Some good, some adequate. She's been the MP in Hackney North/Stoke Newington since 1987 so if she really believed there wasn't a single school good enough for her son, she's greatly let down her constituents, especially black parents.

You call it prioritising her son. I call it her using stereotypes of black boys in order to excuse buying the sort of privilege she's spent her life supposedly campaigning against. We all saw through her nonsense at the time. What a shame she doesn't think black boys can do any better than join gangs.

"As someone who's done a home DNA kit and found out all sorts about my ancestors of 300 years ago..."

Now appropriating other people's experiences and heritage on Mumsnet! Here all week!

It sounds like you have been caught up in a lie.

But don’t the statistics for black students bear her point?

You did say you were black though. You also say you have Jewish heritage. The confusing bit is this. 'I would never align myself with or attempt to form an alliance with the Jewish community. I think everyone needs to advocate and fight their own battles.' So whose battles are you fighting?

Then we can agree that we shouldn't be comparing different forms of racism, and can acknowledge that other groups have suffered from systemic, institutional racism, as well?

The current group facing the systemic and institutional racism are black people though.

It doesn’t diminish other forms of racism to acknowledge that.

No, you explicitly said you were Black, then that you were not Black.

Are you Black or not?

What, that the son of an architect and an MP with power, privilege, well-connected friends, a healthy salary and - in Hackney - a job for life if she wants it is is serious danger of being recruited by county lines? I mean really, pull the other one! Nobody I knew bought it at the time and it's hard to believe anyone is buying it now. She wanted her son to go to private school and she didn't much care about what happened to all the black kids whose families weren't in a position to do likewise.

Like you say you don't know Hackney and I'm from there so to a degree you're going to have to take on board what I'm saying here.

That wasn't Abbott's point.

Why didn’t @neveragainforreal , who posted ‘As a Jewish person of colour, my experience is that I have encountered more racism for being Jewish than being a person of colour’ face this aggressive questioning?

Why is @Lavenderflower being singled out?

Maybe because the first poster didn't say they were black and then that they weren't black? While berating everyone else for racism to boot.

Do you really need an explanation?

There are several.posters, who are really not doing Abbott many favours. When in a hole.. stop digging.

Because she’s mixed race. She’s caught between multiple races. She has black heritage but may not see herself as fully black or fully any other ethnicity.

I’m seeing yet more aggression to a poster saying they are partly black.

It’s beyond depressing.