AIBU to agree with Diane Abbott

[Elephantiner]

I cannot stand Diane Abbott, she has a lazy, patronising manner which riles me, but she has said that people visiblybof a different race (e.g. black people) experience a different sort of racism than those who’s race is not visually obvious (travellers, Jewish people etc). She has a point, doesn’t she? Am I missing something here?

Obviously all types of racism are utterly abhorrent.

I think people will read the thread and draw their own conclusions as to whether Diane Abbott is appropriating the Holocaust or you are appropriating her experiences of racism as a black woman.

Hmmm? How on earth am I appropriating her experiences?

She said this right? Or did she say something else?

“Clearly, there must be a difference between racism which is about colour and other types of racism because you can see a Traveller or a Jewish person walking down the street, you don’t know.
“I just think that it’s silly to try and claim that racism which is about skin colour is the same as other types of racism. I don’t know why people would say that.”

For any avoidance of doubt, this is what she said.

Clearly offensive and demeaning.

I think it's quite clear from reading your comments that you are making false claims in order to justify your own racism. Please educate yourself.

Oh please “LOL” and “Do Better!”

Agreeing with Diane Abbott on racism makes me a racist?
Sure. Sure it does.

Agreeing that 'Jewish people and travellers cannot experience racism' and denigrating the lived experiences of those from these minorities makes you a racist.

At least wear your racist card with pride.

Either you are so ignorant that you do not understand her comments, or you are truly a vile racist. Which is it?

If I was you I would reflect and learn. Anything else makes you look like a fool. I have no time for 'people' like you.

Abbott isn't appropriating the Holocaust. She's ignoring the fact that it ever happened, like she's ignoring the ways Jews have been expelled from many places and excluded from mainstream society. Ignoring the anti Jewish racism that's so prevelant today that many of us choose to hide our ethnicity. That's not a bonus by the way, having to deny an essential part of your identity.
She's also denying the racism endured by other groups. Why are Travellers a protected group if the worst they have to put up with are a few jibes?

I'm not appropriating anything. I know racism is a very unpleasant thing. Unless you have been directly or indirectly affected. I know I haven't, so I'm on no position to assess anybody's personal experience.

That's the amnesia version. The one where she changed what she really said. You need to go back to 2023 to the actual transcript because what she actually said was very different.

I’ve received a lot of notifications and can’t respond to everyone individually. However, I did notice one commenter suggesting that I need to “listen to Jewish people and have empathy.” It’s quite possible that this was an attempt to imply I’m antisemitic. I have never denied or minimised the Jewish experience, nor do I require a lesson in antisemitism. I am fully aware of it and deeply familiar with the history of oppression faced by my own ancestors. In the same vein, I do not claim expertise on the Jewish experience. I can only speak from my lived reality as someone who is visibly and identifiably mixed race, I’m speaking from my own standpoint, as someone who is visibly mixed race and experiences the world through that lens.

I will not be bullied, shamed, or accused of antisemitism simply for holding a different worldview. To those urging me to “listen, respectfully, I think it’s important to bring the same energy to all forms of racism and prejudice. Your experience of racism is not more valid or more important than mine or anyone else’s. To those who demands support and solidarity - this requires mutual understanding and accountability not one-sided expectations.

Labelling a comment as “word salad” or dismissing it as overly intellectual without engaging with its actual content undermines meaningful dialogue. If there are specific points you take issue with, it’s more constructive to critique them directly rather than resort to personal or rhetorical dismissals.

From what I’ve seen in media coverage of this controversy, many commentators appear to support Diane Abbott’s broader point. I agree with Rachel Johnson’s (Journalist) observation that something deeper and more troubling may be at play here. It increasingly feels like discussions of racism are only deemed legitimate when they centre on antisemitism, while other forms especially anti-black racism is downplayed or silenced. It seems at the moment; Jewish Antisemitism is the only protected form of racism that can be discussed. It seems that the Labour Party only represents and support certain people.

As I have already said for me the sentence preceding that: They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable. demonstrates (a) that she knows Jewish people experience prejudice and (b) that others use the words prejudice and racism synonymously (c) she doesn’t, because of the reasons she goes on to explain.

Do you think she deserves the racist attacks on her? You’re certainly giving off the vibe that you are angry she didn’t make the racism she encounters all about you.

Tbf you do sound like you're trying to write a particularly impressive A level essay. Maybe if you wrote in a way that was a bit more accessible and a bit less flowery, you wouldn't have to impress on everyone else that you are Not A Racist?

I wasn't 'grilling' you. I merely expressed skepticism at the claim he couldn't eat the baklava because he keeps kosher, when he'd just eaten non-kosher chicken.

What do you know, it turns out he doesn't actually keep kosher at all.

I'd hazard a guess that he hasn't actually undergone an Orthodox conversion either. So no more a Jew than a transwoman is a woman.

If you read the comment in full, you would understand that she is implying that Jewish people cannot, and have not experienced racism. This is racist. Refusing to listen to minorities and their liver experiences, and selectively quoting history is deeply problematic.

You are a racist if you agree with this.

DA is welcome to talk about her own lived experiences, no one would criticise her for that. I am of course against racism in all forms, but it seems like you are not, ergo, you are a racist @ForrinMummy

There is still time for you to reflect and learn. People do change, and you can. I suggest reading accounts from Jews and travellers, their lived experiences, and opening some history books. Minds, like books, can only work if they are open.

@lavenderflower it's courteous to respond to posters, not just to throw out a blanket statement. As much as you refuse to be accused of antisemitism, I will continue to speak out, when I see it.

It sounded pretty plain English to me . Maybe exercise your brain a bit? These aren’t simple concepts and theres only so much a person can do to simplify them for you

It sounds like it is written by ChatGPT, and is a long hand way of saying 'I don't believe in racism against Jews and travellers'.

The irony is that the @Lavenderflower is saying that anti-black racism is downplayed, while downplaying other forms of racism, is somewhat lost on them, despite their 'intellectual' response. Oh dear.

👏 👏

They might be simple concepts but they weren't half wrapped up in a lot of cotton wool! I'm sure the pp will thank you for your white knighting though. Most chivalrous.

Agree. Start by reading experiences of Jewish people.

Is that the best you can do - an ad hominem? Critiquing the tone or style isn’t a rebuttal. If it makes you feel better to imply my style is pretentious, racist or performative, go ahead.

Unfortunately, people are still perpetuating the antisemitic tropes from a book written 122 years ago called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. The book “purports to document the minutes of a late-19th-century meeting attended by world Jewish leaders, the "Elders of Zion", who are conspiring to control the world” and “includes plans to subvert the morals of the non-Jewish world, plans for Jewish bankers to control the world's economies, plans for Jewish control of the press, and – ultimately – plans for the destruction of civilisation”

This book was proven to be a complete hoax by the 1920s but is still used, quoted and perpetuated by anti semitic groups as a genuine document. I still regularly hear supposedly well informed people talking about Jewish conspiracies, that Jews are behind the US government and that they clearly control the media but social media is full of it and the same lies are repeatedly loudly and openly at supposed anti genocide marches in our cities.

In no way belittling or minimising the experiences of racism that people of colour experience, but we gave at least moved on from the racial stereotyping that black peoples are lazy, hyper sexual, uncivilised and violent, but not it seems for those of Jewish ancestry. Despite the appalling genocides in Rwanda and Darfur, we don’t hold every black person responsible and single out and tackle a random individual going about their business to verbally abuse. Likewise, we don’t and shouldn’t blame the ordinary Chinese people for the appalling treatment of the Uyghurs despite the fact that China has been forcibly mass sterilising Uyghurs women to suppress the population, separating children from their families, and attempting to break the cultural traditions of the group. Which incidentally, the world seems to be turning a blind eye to.

You do have your own experience, as does everyone, but I don’t think that’s what the issue is with Diane Abbott’s statements.

It’s that she can’t know what Jewish people experience, and speaking of her own experience is fine, just not on behalf of others.

So, I sound like ChatGPT just because you dislike what I said? Also, I’m not sure why you brought Travellers into this. I haven’t directly spoken about them. Are you a Traveller yourself? My earlier point was about how visibility impacts experiences of racism. It’s interesting how some people seem to think they have a monopoly on recognising racism.