Dd friend wants to come and play but exclude my other dd.

[kindamean]

I have 2 dd who are only a year apart 6 and 7 and share a bedroom.
One of my dd has a friend who comes to play but doesn’t want other dd to play with them and wants to come for sleepovers but again wants other dd who’s room it is too, not to play with them.
When my dd goes/stays with her then they can play together as obviously my other dd isn’t there but if this friend is with us I can’t allow them to exclude her from her own room or not bring her to the park if I take them.

Of course I encourage them to have their own friends and they do but I don’t want to feel obligated to make plans so dd2 has somewhere else to be every time this friend comes over just because she doesn’t want to include her.
How would you handle this? bear in mind this is one of her closest friends.
We have summer holidays coming up and I’d love to plan days out with their friends but if I’m taking them to the park or something I will be taking both mine.

That is not her older siblings problem, and certainly not the friend’s problem. They don’t want to play with her and they don’t have to. You have to find a way to allow your older daughter to have friendships.

Can you put youngest in a club oldest isn't in, to try and make some friends?
Or put some effort into building friendships from school up, eg more playdates for her, trips to park with others from the school gates? If DD2 has no friends, then it probably does feel like she's trying to muscle in on DD1 and friends special time, and (no matter how close in age), your relationship with your friends isn't the same as with your sister, and having a sister present can stop you actually doing the stuff with your friends you want!
Having spent a lot of my childhood sleepovers trying to keep my sister out of my room, you need to do more to occupy DD2 when DD1 has a friend over! If DD1 wants DD2 to be involved in their play (which it doesn't sound like atm), then have a chat with her before friend comes over, and she needs to be the one says 'lets play withDD2' or 'we should include her'.

Having a sleepover with a sibling in the room is very strange in my eyes - when we stayed at a friend's who shared a room with her younger sister, sister slept in mum and dad's room, and we got the bedroom. As we got older, we had the lounge and sister kept the bedroom - we weren't allowed in after her bedtime, so friend had to bring everything we wanted downstairs before then.

As an older sister my advice would be to keep the youngest one away and let oldest enjoy playing with her friends in peace. I hated always having to include my annoying little sister and my friends didn’t want her hanging around either. I never tried to interfere with her friendships. We still get on better when we’re not forced into doing things together too much.

Tbh i think you are being a bit unfair expecting the older girls to always include a younger sibling.
If its a sleepover why not let the two older girls camp out in the living room overnight?

Presumably your older daughter is in a class at school with this friend, your younger daughter is not so she doesn't know her well. Your younger daughter isn't her friend she's a random younger child. Kids don't expect to be invited on a playdate then told they have to babysit a younger kid, that's not fair.
You need to take your younger daughter downstairs and do something together just you two, so that the older two girls get their space.

I don’t think it’s nice of the visitor to be leading the exclusion but on the other hand she isn’t friends with your DD2 and doesn’t want to be, and that’s her prerogative.

It depends on how DD1 feels about it. If she’s happy to have her younger sister included you can lay the law down with the guest about not leaving her out. However if she isn’t keen, I think you need to acknowledge that too.

As a DD1 who regularly had DD2 foisted on me, I don’t think you’re being fair to your elder daughter. She isn’t a babysitter. Let her have her friend to herself and find something else to do with DD2. And maybe work on ways she can make her own friends, because then everyone will be happy.

6 and 7 years old is a bit too young for sleepovers imo.

i should think that the op may have difficulty in finding a friend of dd2 whose parent would allow a sleepover at that age.

Well obviously the older daughter needs to be able to do things without her sister's interference sometimes, however I don't think it's reasonable for a visiting child to say that your youngest isn't welcome in her own bedroom...

Your younger daughter's problems are a different issue really and you definitely need to work on that. However I think this visiting child needs to have it very clearly explained that your younger daughter lives in the same house and if the friend is going to visit she has to accept that. if she doesn't like it, she doesn't need to visit. You can explain to the child's mther in a diplomatic way that you cannot always reciprocate playdates and sleepovers on the basis that her child won't accept your youngest. If the child and her parents don't like that, they're free to explore other friendships.

Meanwhile, get some professional help for your youngest and arrange some playdates for your eldest with her friends (including mean girl) where your youngest isn't around.

The odd was not mentioned in your first post.
However although it must be very challenging to manage, it's not dd1's fault and she can't be expected to make compensations for her sister's conditions at the expense of her own life and needs.

My dds have different needs (medical) but I was as careful as I could be not to burden dd2 because of dd1. This just causes a lot of resentment and issues along the line

I don't have the answers but I'm sure with the diagnosis you have support on how to manage situations and how best to help dd2 to understand.

It sounds like you always pander to your youngest child at the expense of your eldest. It would be very sad if your eldest missed out on friendships because of that. You need to offer your eldest the opportunity sometimes to play without her younger sibling. You also need to find ways to support your youngest with building friendships, and respecting boundaries will form part of that.

I think it's crucial to allow your elder daughter the space and time to develop her own friendships, especially if your younger child has additional needs. The friend may be expressing what your DD1 feels anyway. It sounds as though DD2 has some challenging behaviours which could certainly change the dynamic if she is present.

There are many situations where I think it is wrong to exclude one child. But this is not one of them.

I'm going to try one more time.

Your older DD deserves her own friends on her own schedule. She should not have to always include her little sister - even when at home. Even when, especially when, there are other conditions in play like ODD. Your older daughter deserves her own life.

Of course there are times, mostly family times, when they have to be together and entertain each other - but they both deserve their own friends and their own time.

Is there no chance you can move so they can have their own rooms? IME they are fine until they are not - and then you need to separate them as a matter of urgency. With us it was literally overnight.

Your DDs are separate people and your DD1 deserves to have time with her friend. This is a recipe for long-term resentment DD1 never feeling like she can advocate for herself or be anything but endlessly accommodating.

Others are calling the friend mean-spirited and OP you seem to be blaming her, but the reality is that DD1 and her friend are currently being given only two options: 1) include DD2 as she wishes even when they want alone time or she’s making things difficult or 2) forcefully exclude her in harsh or sneaky ways. You as the parent need to open up an additional option that is actually acceptable by stopping your DD2 from imposing herself constantly. Your DD2 should be treated with kindness in her home and get to enjoy some family activity time like meals, decorating biscuits or maybe a movie and the older girls should get to have time with just the two of them when they wish (without needing to be mean about it!) but the two 7 year olds can’t be expected to bring that scenario about on their own.

We encourage sleepover and friend time to happen in a secondary living space rather than shared bedrooms so our children aren’t being shut out of their own rooms by siblings and we plan both group/family time (when we do expect everyone to be treated kindly) and something fun for just the younger sibling(s) while setting boundaries about younger ones barging in when their siblings are trying to have time with friends. If this still proves to be impossible for you to achieve with your younger DD then it’s ok to decide that sleepovers aren’t really feasible at your house right now. That’s ok - reciprocity in relationships doesn’t require mirroring, so just tell the other parents that with DD2’s needs you’re not hosting sleepovers but you’ll be happy to contribute more time/energy elsewhere.

What does dad think?

Pretty standard to police playdates at that age (albeit at a distance), and to lay down the law: everyone is included, nobody is left out etc. I’m surprised you are confused as to what you need to do here…?

You can't make them include your younger DD the point of a playdate is for children to make friends outside the family.
Of course if you are taking them to the park you have to take them all and elder DD has to accept that but making them play together won't work.
As others say you should arrange play dates for both girls at the same time .
If you can't then you need to do something special with the younger daughter while her sister has her friend over.hl Have some one to one time with her,Play a game together, do some baking, crafting or watch a film with her.

I think you just can’t do last minute play dates at your house. Plan lots of play dates for dc2 in first then invite dc1’s friend over on those times.

Ir also might be good for your dd1 to be the one who doesn’t have a friend over sometimes.

You absolutely have to start learning strategies so the you can parent dd2 properly. You think it’s bad now? Just wait a couple of years when dd1will be up in year 4 (notoriously difficult year) and none of her friends want to come for play dates in the first place because of dd2’s behaviour. Poor dd1 will be mortified, if she is isn’t already. You really aren’t managing this effectively or responsibly

You’re right, some people on here might not have the best understanding of a child with ODD. The person who likely has a really good understanding though is your eldest. She is living the experience of the challenging behaviour just as much as you are. That is why it’s so important she has opportunities to develop friendships play and have time alone. It would be very sad if she reached adulthood and her experience of childhood was having to come second to her sibling and their needs. Has she got any support in her own right? Perhaps if she helps you she could be referred to young carers, so she gets support and opportunities for time away from her sister.

So plan play dates for dd2 but purposely block dd1 having friends?

Yep absolutely enforce that dd1s feelings count for nothing, she will always come second to her sister, and you have a clear favourite... stellar parenting!!

I honestly can't believe the number of posters purposely being vindictive or basically horrible to the dd1.
Saying she can't have friends unless her sister gets their own way.
Espousing the dd1 and her friends should #bekind by doing what dd2 wants always.
That it's a great thing dd1 learns her needs and wants count for nothing and to be a 'good person ' she must always place herself after others..

We had this. Friend of DD and the mother asked if DS could leave the house when her DD was visiting. My 2 get on really well and are only 18 months apart. DS was happy not to play with them but it is his house. I said to the Mum that it is his house too and of course he will be here, of course I won’t schedule him to be away to suit her precious daughter.

This is ridiculous. They take the whole family as they find you or just don’t bother coming round. And no nasty bullying or exclusion allowed.

We had this. Friend of DD and the mother asked if DS could leave the house when her DD was visiting. My 2 get on really well and are only 18 months apart. DS was happy not to play with them but it is his house. I said to the Mum that it is his house too and of course he will be here, of course I won’t schedule him to be away to suit her precious daughter.

Is it really necessary to point out the critical differences in this situation and whats going on at OP’s home right now?

They are 7&6. Dd1 is about to go on the school holidays and I presume doesn’t have a phone yet, so any play date will be set up amongst the parents, the girls will have no idea it’s being discussed.

rather than waiting for dd1’s mum to contact to ask for a play date, the op should sort out some dates that work for her, when dd2 has a friend over. ”last minute play dates” don’t work for her so plan in advance.

and I do think if dd1 is the one who regularly has a friend over when dd2 doesn’t, it might be good for dd1 to experience the other way round sometimes. So if the OP sets up play dates for dd2 and dd1’s friend can’t make it and no one else is free, that’s ok.

Um. Yes.

Two children = same (DD + DD versus DD and DS).
Share a room = same (mine stopped sharing when we moved when they were 7 and 9)
Visiting child’s mother involved - backing up her DD to play with just one chosen child.

in both cases a visitor is upsetting a pair of siblings’ relationship.

in my case the visiting child’s mother was wayyyy too involved and thought it acceptable to ask that DS was not at home. I could list her mad behaviours on behalf of her only child. But my job is to protect my 2, not pandering to her child’s nastiness or desire for just one friend.

This is ridiculous. They take the whole family as they find you or just don’t bother coming round. And no nasty bullying or exclusion allowed.

your situation was ridiculous and you were right to say "no". But OPs situation is different. If you are all "you have to include the 'likely to have a meltdown if she doesn't get her way' younger DD2" then your older DD will soon have no friends wanting to come over, and unless her friends (and their parents) are very understanding of why that is, won'T be invited on any playdates.

Am interested @kindamean does older DD get to have a birthday party and invite the people she wants?