Dd friend wants to come and play but exclude my other dd.

[kindamean]

I have 2 dd who are only a year apart 6 and 7 and share a bedroom.
One of my dd has a friend who comes to play but doesn’t want other dd to play with them and wants to come for sleepovers but again wants other dd who’s room it is too, not to play with them.
When my dd goes/stays with her then they can play together as obviously my other dd isn’t there but if this friend is with us I can’t allow them to exclude her from her own room or not bring her to the park if I take them.

Of course I encourage them to have their own friends and they do but I don’t want to feel obligated to make plans so dd2 has somewhere else to be every time this friend comes over just because she doesn’t want to include her.
How would you handle this? bear in mind this is one of her closest friends.
We have summer holidays coming up and I’d love to plan days out with their friends but if I’m taking them to the park or something I will be taking both mine.

much easier to have friend each for play dates

do the same for sleepovers

or if room allows. Have dd in with you for the night So the two girls are on own

war happens when youngest has a friend over but eldest doesn’t

do all 3 play

yes good for siblings to play /share
but equally they need time to play with their friends

yes but the controlling influence is just as much if not more the OPs daughter not the friend and it will get worse as DD2 gets older

it is likely the friend at 7 is confident enough to say that the sibling being there all the time is too much

and it is - @kindamean it is hard dealing with ODD and at times almost impossible but passing that onto your DD and her friend isn’t the answer

first off sleepovers don’t have to be reciprocated in these circumstances they rarely are equal
second day out are different and all do need to be done together
but your DD does need space from her sibling

I’d cut out the sleepovers. Why should your younger daughter be kicked out of her room for the friend. I agree that children need to have friends to play where their sibling isn’t hanging around all the time. I remember that was annoying. But be careful that this family isn’t using your daughter to keep their only child from being lonely. It’s not your problem they only had one.

My best mate from age 7 shared a bedroom with her sister 2 years younger. Friend and I were joined at the hip but we never ever ever included her sister in anything we did, would not have crossed our minds. We’re in our fifties now and still friends. The sister is perfectly nice and we’re on nodding terms but I barely know her. The sisters are not hugely close. Nobody is upset by it.

It’s not unkind for a 7 yr old not to have a younger sister with ODD spoiling every play date she has at home, or for a visiting guest to want to spend her time with the person she’s actually visiting. This is a really bad boundary to set for everyone concerned (including the 6 yr old).

Have you actually read OP’s posts about the behaviour of the younger child? And OP’s posts about how this behaviour is just accepted, can’t be helped? If you were the older child would you see any point telling mum you just want to play with your friend today? Nope.

The visiting child is just the mouth piece here, because the older child is so used to be put last to their sibling’s needs and has realised it doesn’t matter what they want because sister shouts the loudest.

Would you want to play with a child who behaves the way this one does? I personally wouldn’t and I also wouldn’t for a second blame my daughter for saying she did not want to play with a child who behaves that way.

This is quite ridiculous.

The DDs are two different ages in two different friend groups. They’ll have different friends. Her other DD can absolutely have a friend over, or spend time with mum, but they don’t all have to be friends together!

@kindamean does your youngest go to mainstream school? And how is she coping there (e.g does she have an EHCP etc). If she has a 1-1 can you get some tips from them about how they manage her?

This. Yes, the playdate kids should get a chance to play on their own, but they're in a family house and it's not ok for them to completely ignore or be mean to other family members.

My kids have a 5 year age gap and kids coming round to play with my older DS are expected to be nice to his little sister. And more often than not they'll have a little play with her or include her in a few games. I don't expect them to do this, but I won't tolerate a bad atmosphere and meanness.

Your last sentence is utter nonsense. You seriously believe that friends have a different function for only children than they do for children with siblings?

I had 3 kids with SEN.

I still wouldn't be dictated to by a visiting child.

its useful when people show their true feelings against kids with SNs though....

I mean by that logic it’s also nobody else’s fault that her dd2 has odd and nobody else should have to make up for it. Not all only children are bored needing occupying maybe they are just friends. Maybe the other family feel for Dd1 and the relentlessness of her siblings behaviour when things don’t go her way.

Normally in a house you wouldn’t have a child you’d have to drag kicking and screaming and hitting just to let one child and their friend have some alone play time on their play date.

I think a boundary that I'd very much put in place is that friend and older sister don't get to exclude younger sister from her own bedroom. If they have a problem with her being there, they need to be the ones to leave.

I agree.

Who diagnosed your dd2 with odd @kindamean ?
Could you go back to them for coping strategies?
And it sounds like it would be helpful for dd1 to register with young carers for support and activities outwith the sphere of having to concede to dd1 all the time?

It would also be useful for you to consider whether the sibling of this child, who has grown up seeing mum’s attitude of “too much hassle to deal with that, she will kick off so you just have to allow her to do whatever she wants”, would actually ever themselves feel comfortable to tell mum that she herself does not want her sister to play with them.

Why would she? She knows mum isn’t going to do anything about it.

So actually, most likely, it’s not only visiting child who feels this way. They are just the only one who believes there is any point saying anything.

It’s very much a parenting thing- not an SN kids thing.

Edit to add- I have absolutely nothing whatsoever against those with SN. But do I judge a parent who is letting one child dictate their household, meaning their other child always has to just put up & shut up? Yeah, I do judge that. BOTH children should be considered, not just the one who shouts the loudest.

Do you have a partner OP? In this scenario I would suggest one of you stays home with older DD and her friend and other parent takes younger DD out for a bit to do something special.

I do feel for you with a child with ODD, but that isn’t your older DDs fault, and she’s entitled to have time with her friends without having to have her sibling involved in everything.

I agree with previous posters too that if younger DD was a DS, there wouldn’t be this automatic assumption of inclusion in everything

While yes I agree that your dd and her friend should get their own time, firstly I don’t agree that that needs to be every time and secondly if it is the friend wanting to leave her out, there’s a lot to be said for her getting a lesson about how people are treated, the fronds of my kids I tend to like least nearly always tend to be the ones that eg hog time in the playground with one person and leave others out

I can see why the friend prefers not to have her around then. The ODD was a bit of a drip-feed.

Have you spoken to your older DD to see what SHE wants to happen?

I think this is a really good point. A referral for young carers like Barnados would be really good for your DD to be able to find somewhere just for her. Sounds like DD1 may have to live her life appeasing DD2, which is what it is, you can’t change who DD2 is but some recognition for DD1 as she grows up may be really beneficial.

My SIL has autism and my brother in law is SN, my SIL2 is the middle child to them (DW is significant older from DMIL 1st marriage) middle child is so close with both siblings, as she grew up she was just in tune with their needs, she’d advocate for them, translate, help them regulate their emotions. It was kind of expected. She has a real difficult relationship with her mum now as I think she’s felt ignored. Still very close to siblings though

These are two seperate issues I think. One is that youngest needs to learn that sometimes big sister needs to play on her own with her own friends and the second is that you are specifically talking about this one friend, who I will dub ‘mean girl’. I wouldn’t have a child over to my house who is deliberately unkind to one of my children - she doesn’t have to play with her but she needs to be kind to her and it sounds as though she is not. It sounds like the butterfly episode from Bluey so perhaps I should dub the mean girl ‘Coco’…

There is something lovely about the children who come and include everyone. We had a little boy to play a few weeks ago and they were all pretending to be super-knights and he decided he was a dragon and let my younger one ride on his back accidentally whacking his head with a foam sword and seemed to enjoy it 😂.

That's a tricky one. I would be reminding any child in my home that they have to treat everyone kindly. If she repeatedly pretended to play hide and seek etc. I'd ring her mum to take her home.

I do think your older daughter should be able to play 1:1 with her friend though. I wouldn't exclude your youngest from her own room, but I would set up a space in my room/the dining room for your oldests play date and keep the youngest away (if that's what your eldest wants, talk to her about it).

SEN isn't really an excuse. Yes it might be incredibly difficult for you to facilitate this, but your youngest's needs are yours to deal with, not her sister's.

I just wouldn't do sleepovers if you don't have somewhere else for the older two to sleep. Your youngest deserves to feel comfortable in her bedroom more than your eldest needs sleepovers.

This, so the posters who are saying 'tough luck dd1, your sister want this, your wants and needs don't matter'

Do you think that will be conducive long term, or in 5 or so years dd1 will be out of the house as much as she can knowing her parents dont think about her as a person in her own right?

This can be quite damaging depending on the dynamic with the Friend
We had a child in our street that bullied my little daughter relentlessly and somehow managed to persuade her sister to join in.
It still gets mentioned now 20 years later