Dd friend wants to come and play but exclude my other dd.

[kindamean]

I have 2 dd who are only a year apart 6 and 7 and share a bedroom.
One of my dd has a friend who comes to play but doesn’t want other dd to play with them and wants to come for sleepovers but again wants other dd who’s room it is too, not to play with them.
When my dd goes/stays with her then they can play together as obviously my other dd isn’t there but if this friend is with us I can’t allow them to exclude her from her own room or not bring her to the park if I take them.

Of course I encourage them to have their own friends and they do but I don’t want to feel obligated to make plans so dd2 has somewhere else to be every time this friend comes over just because she doesn’t want to include her.
How would you handle this? bear in mind this is one of her closest friends.
We have summer holidays coming up and I’d love to plan days out with their friends but if I’m taking them to the park or something I will be taking both mine.

The invitee does not get to choose the guest list.

I completely agree with this

Given this I think it's even more important your DD1 has some time with friends away from her sister.

Do you have a partner?

Have DD1 friends over when you, your partner or another relative can take dd2 out if it's that tricky.

It's a question of balance and judgement. Of course one child's needs shouldn't be placed above another child's, and of course all children should have independent time with their friends without their siblings.

But equally family relationships and sibling relationships are precious. If the sibling relationship is largely positive, then it is a beneficial thing for the siblings. I wouldn't have a child around whose behaviour was damaging the relationship between my own children. Ultimately, although space to develop their own friendships is crucial, the sibling relationship between my children is likely to prove much more important to both of them in life than one child's friendship with another, slightly unpleasant child.

This is the case for our family, because my children generally are close, get on well and have a great bond. They enjoy their time together, despite the age gap, and I won't have another child upsetting that. If actually the sibling bond isn't great, they don't get on or one child is always being pushed aside due to the other sibling's needs, then clearly that's a different judgement for the parent to make.

I think I would be really honest with the parents of the other child and explain that while you appreciate their hospitality to your older daughter you can’t reciprocate just now, tell them in gentle clear terms why . If some one told me this I would be more than happy to not expect a return invite. It’s not ideal for your daughter I know and on the odd occasion when you can arrange alternative care for your younger child , hopefully they can enjoy time at your home? Just an idea ?

I would discourage that friendship as the girl sounds horrible.

Why the OP herself says that having a child with ODD is hard - well imagine trying to deal with that at 7 when you want to just see your friend.

Children are allowed to have boundaries as well and hers to spend time with her friend without a sibling who one assumes wants to control and dictate the environment is perfectly fine.

My two are a school year apart. 9 & 10 years old. We’ve been having play dates forever.
When either child has a friend over, they all play nicely. I refuse to have one kicked out of their shared room or sidelined because the other has a play date. It works both ways.
I wouldn’t let a child dictate what happens on a play date, “she can’t play with my friend etc”
thats just mean & not nice being left out.

when one goes to someone else’s for a play date, I do try to get the other one a play date here.

@CrispieCakewe have a 6y age gap and my ds is also the older one. His friends are so lovely and do have a little play with 2yo dd. It’s not them who is the problem, it’s her. She doesn’t want to leave them alone and I don’t blame her especially when they are the fun group. I’m always stuck then because she’s not interested in anything I have set up for her and we don’t have a garden so I can’t take her out to a class or anything as I can’t leave the boys.

So for now we only do play dates when I have a good few activities planned for her, or I hire a babysitter for that time. Ridiculous and expensive I know BUT it is so important for my ds to have his own space. I also have the play dates over her nap time too, so that cuts out a bit of time as well.

I spoke to a friend to ask how she did it with the age gap same as mine. She said that she was fortunate in that her older dc friend was an only and always wanted her over there and was very happy with that so it worked out. On the occasion that she had them over, it was extremely hard too and just wasn’t worth the stress. Another friend said she didn’t have play dates until the younger one was old enough to have a friend also come over and they play independently.
I don’t know how others do it.

It may be that the friend is saying what the eldest has sad to her but feels she can't say.

This is simply resolved……..just stop the sleepovers!

'I hear her saying come on lets go upstairs before she sees or pretends to play hide and seek but never looks for her.'

This behavior wouldn't be acceptable in my home. The children would be told to play nicely together and include everyone present.

There is a 2 year age difference between my sons and they pretty much always played as a group with whoever had a friend over. I have a brother, 2 years younger than me, and if friends were at our house, we all played together. Even as young adults, my brother would invite me out with his friends if I didn't have plans etc.. My sons are young adults now and they share a loot of the same friends. That is normal in my experience.

There are always plenty of other opportunities for the elder 2 to spend in one another's company. School, at the other child's house etc.. Children should be taught to include not exclude others and definitely not play cruel games like 'Hide & Seek but let's not seek your little sister'. That's so mean.

When my boys who share a room have sleepovers. We usually either let them sleep in the sittingroom, bring other sibling in with us or they chose to stay at grannies.

I have 2 boys 16 months apart. When the older one has a friend over, I do something with the younger one so his brother can play with his friend. But I also say that they should also play as a ‘3’ for a little bit and that they all need to be nice to each other. I wouldn’t stand for older kids being unkind to younger- hiding from them, etc - really mean!

I agree it depends on family dynamics and house set-up. We're lucky to have an upstairs so the older boys go upstairs and the little one stays downstairs. She's also happy to hang out with me for a lot of the time, so isn't always very clingy to the older ones.

Obviously with toddlers it's different because you just can't let them interrupt the older ones' games the whole time or they just wreck them. So they do need some separation and space, luckily in our case balanced by the boys mostly being willing to have a silly game or play football with DC2. Or I'll be doing an activity with DC2 - playdoh, kinetic sand, cooking - and the older kids will wander in and demand to join in. So they're crashing her party, rather than the other way around.

We've never had a problem with closer in age siblings. My good friend has a 5yo and a 7yo, and 5yo is just treated like one of the older ones. And we've had a couple of close in age brothers (a year apart) round to play and again, no problem. I'm not saying I don't think there could be an issue in these cases - I went to school with year apart sisters who actually hated each other, detested each other to the extent they wouldn't talk and refused to sit next to each other. But I'd be unimpressed if my child was the one creating the issue. He has enough time alone with his friends at schools, camps and parties that he can be nice to their siblings (and tbf he usually is).

I was that older daughter and it made friendships really difficult. My sister would also scream till she got what she wanted and I was made to indulge her. It made friends not want to come over, because I couldn't devote my full attention to playing with them, since I also had to babysit a disruptive sibling who wanted to be the center of attention. I really hated it.

But it got worse as we got older. My parents would often leave us alone on the weekend. I was in charge. But since my sister would already not listen to my parents, I had no hope of controlling her. It was fine if we were both watching a movie we liked. But she made a big mess of the house and left me to clean it all up or face my parents' wrath if the house was messy upon their return.

It caused me so much stress and really hurt the relationship between us. We got closer again once we were both adults. My sister had mellowed out a lot by that time.

Eldest child here and been in the friend's position too. Let them be and let them (pretty confident it's not just the friend who doesn't want your DD2 hanging around) exclude her or step up and make it more fun to not be with them.

It's deeply unfair on your older DD to expect her to share her friends, they've come to see her not her and her sibling. Do you anticipate this carrying on in the future and always having to include her sibling in her friendships? Have a think about the long-term and how you will manage this in a way that is fair for both of your DDs.

Ok so a few ideas

1. set your younger DD up doing a regular club. Brownies maybe? Then you can have playdates for DD1 when she is at the club. Will also help your younger one’s social skills in a structured way.

2. Allow your DC2 to have screen time for a large chunk of the playdate. I know this is not brilliant in lots of ways but it’s how I used to manage sometimes if they just couldn’t keep away and it caused issues.

3. It is absolutely fine to say sorry we just can’t manage sleepovers due to shared bedroom. See if the friend’s family will still be happy to host sleepovers without reciprocation from you - I bet they will.

4. have weekend playdates and one parent takes DC2 out while the other parent hosts the playdate

Please don’t expect your older child to include younger - especially if she is quite difficult. It’s not fair on a 7 year old.

Your younger child might display challenging behaviour when she doesn’t get her own way, but that’s all the more reason why your eldest should be supported to develop strong friendships. Especially if you’re using the older girl to provide playmates for your younger one because she doesn’t have her own friends.

The older girl who visits isn’t wrong to just want to play with her friend. She didn’t accept the invitation so that she could entertain her friend’s little sister.

You need to have another child to keep your youngest company. You aren’t obliged to have last minute sleepovers. Plan them.

Why don’t you sit down with both DDs and watch the Bluey episode ‘Butterflies.’ (or get the book version) It is literally about exactly this scenario. At the end have a discussion about how Bingo felt when they left her out and ask your DDs if they can think of a time when they felt left out. Did they think it was kind/unkind etc

What happens if or when all three are playing together and DD2 wants to do something different from what DD1 and friend want to do? Suppose they've planned something specific for the playdate and DD2 doesn't want to?

I sympathise with your dilemma, it's tricky.

I agree with your eldest DD's right to have her own friends over. But by the same token, Look at all the angst this friend is creating.
She comes to your house and is mean to your younger child. I don't think that DD2 should be subjected to someone doing that in her own home, her own room. I also think it will really start to influence how DD1 behaves towards her sister.

I don't think you should be dictated to by someone else's kid either, getting stressed about how to manage these playdates so that the friend behaves herself, especially if they are encouraging your eldest to be mean to her sister who she otherwise plays happily with ( if I read your posts right?)

Your DD1 should see the friend at the friends house more often, and less often and supervised more closely at yours. And I'd be encouraging DD1 to have a selection of friends over, maybe some of them will behave a bit better. Sometimes, having just one close friend in primary school can blow up if its too intense and there's an argument and then there are tears. And we've already seen this friend knows how to be mean. Its better to have several friends so things are more relaxed.

At the same time, DD2 needs to be busy and occupied when DD1 has friends over, for her protection as much as anything else.
And in the summer have some days out with just your two DD together, (so they remember that they enjoy each other's company even though (gasp) they are a year group apart,) as well as friend playdates. Why not?
Good luck.

Hi OP

I think you should have given a few more details in your OP. You've added that:
Your younger daughter has ODD
She has no friends
When asked to do something that she doesn't want to do, she has violent meltdowns

In the context of the above, it sounds less about your elder daughters friend being unkind to a younger child, and more about your elder daughter needing some space to play with friends without play being dominated by her potentially quote difficult little sister
She's
You do need to do more to give your elder child some space to have her own friendships. For example set up a den for them to sleep on the living room. Getting their dad to take the youngest out or organising playdates when she has a club. Putting them to bed in your bed and then transferring them when they are asleep. Bribery. If it's a last minute playdate you'll have to say no because you haven't arranged anything for the youngest and they don't all get on playing together, and then re organise for a more convenient time. Or say yes you can come but only if you don't leave x out this time, and I'll make sure she's out of your way next time or something. Just don't force your eldest to be expected to share her friends all the time

This sounds very difficult, but it's a totally different scenario to your opening post, so most of the replies aren't going to take this into account.

My suggestion is to allow your older DD to have most of her play dates/sleepovers outside the house. To be honest, I can see why this particular friend tries to avoid your younger DD. She is only about 7 herself, so not really able to understand or deal with ODD.

If your older DD wants a play date at home, then it needs to be when you can arrange for your younger DD to be elsewhere.

You say she is strong now, at six, so it will only get worse as she gets bigger.

My dds are less than a year apart and when they had play dates at our house, the other dd just wasn't involved as it wasn't their friend.
They both had plenty of friends over and when they did the other dd did something else. I never forced them to play with the other dd as that's ridiculous.
They also shared a room when they were younger, For sleepovers I put the dd and the guest in the living room on airbeds and the other dd was in their bedroom.