To complain to HR… about HR?

[ApricotFlan]

Sorry, this might be a bit of a long one!

For a while now, the buzz at work has been that my head of department, Angela, was on borrowed time. Yesterday it was confirmed the rumours were true. Angela had been into her boss’s office and then went out seemingly for lunch, but never came back. Our team was then called into the boardroom and told that Angela had been made redundant, effective immediately.

Because there had already been gossip, Angela’s boss - now OUR boss until further notice - decided it was better that any speculation happened away from the office. He gave my line manager his corporate card and told him to take us all to the pub, so that any discussions would happen there.

This morning I and two of my colleagues arrived at around 9.15. We have a flexible start and end time, with the option to do anything from 8 - 4 to 10 - 6, and the rest of the team had arrived early. My colleague Louise told me that the Head of UK HR had pulled them all in and given them a dressing down for going to the pub, saying it looked like we were “celebrating”, and that Angela has most definitely NOT been made redundant and was in a process. Louise and the others had naturally told her that we’d simply done as we’d been told, and that it was our boss who’d said Angela had been made redundant. When Louise asked why my colleagues and I weren’t being included in the meeting, Head of HR had admitted she’d forgotten about us 🙄

Anyway, Head of HR appears and asks me and my two colleagues to come to the boardroom. I’m expecting an apology for forgetting us and a reiteration of the redundancy process, seeing as she now knows a) we were following orders and b) that it was our boss who’d told us about the redundancy.

No. We got the exact same spiel about how bad it looked that we’d gone to the pub, couldn’t we see that it looked like we were celebrating - even a mawkish “Think how poor Angela would feel!” We were told again that she had absolutely NOT been made redundant and was in a process.

I said, “Sorry, I’m confused - Louise said she explained we were TOLD to go to the pub, and that Angela had been made redundant.” Head of HR got flustered saying “Well yes; she did, she did.” I then asked why we were there if she knew all this. She got huffy and said again that the point was that Angela had NOT been made redundant and that this should not be said in the office. I repeated that no one had said this other than management.

Later on in the day, Head of HR had said to Louise, “I didn’t offend you all earlier, did I?” Louise, to her credit, had said that yes, frankly she did, and that the issue had actually been with our boss.

I am torn on what to do. If any other manager had treated me like this and been so inept, I would be straight on to HR. But it IS HR who have made the almighty fuck-up. I cannot comprehend how the supposed head of the UK function would a) haul the team in without even speaking to their boss, b) forget three members of said team even exist and c) STILL give the team members they forgot the original lecture, when their mistake had already been corrected! The incompetence is breathtaking.

Despite it being the UK Head of HR at fault, I do have options. One would be to complain to my boss and get him to take it up with them. The other is to go to the Global Head of HR. It’s a big move, but I just cannot fathom how this all went so badly wrong, and why I’m being hauled in to answer for the mistakes of management . Should I take this further?

It sounds like they messed this up from the start. Nobody can be made redundant on Day 1, there has to be a consultation period where the job is first put 'At Risk from Redundancy'. HR have royally messed up if this isn't what happened. And sending you all off to the pub and being told the member of staff is gone straightaway is a huge problem. Someone got this very wrong and you aren't at fault. It's HR and the Senior Manager and they're trying to cover their backs. They'll be trying to have meetings where they take notes on the new version of truth as this is what will be needed at tribunal...if it goes this far.

Absolutely. It sounds like one of those ones where this entire team needs to be split up and managed out, the culture sounds awful to work in and manage. I’d personally sack the lot of them and start afresh, good thing they have redundancies going on…

It’s not normal to work for a company where everyone gossips about each other like this, it’s only a matter of time before they all turn on each other? I mean someone clearly spilled the beans to Angela lol

Please tell me you at least went to a pub far away from the office, not the nearest??

Your senior manager is an absolute idiot to communicate so badly and send you to the pub, your line manager definitely should have said it wasn't appropriate, and you and the team should have also raised a concern at the time. But no. Off you skipped, rubbing your hands in glee at the idea of a few free drinks. Pathetic. Poor Angela.

Your HR was clarifying the miscommunication and trying to make you see what you had done was wholly inappropriate. In two batches as you didn't turn up til after 9am. Hangover, maybe?

I’d personally sack the lot of them and start afresh, good thing they have redundancies going on…

You're hilarious. One minute you’re claiming to be an expert on employment law; the next you’re making hyperbolic statements like this that would break every employment law in the book.

You're also wilfully ignoring that there are no “redundancies going on”. They’ve found an excuse to get rid of a dangerously incompetent head of department without the embarrassment of actually saying out loud that she was a disastrous hire.

Yep, and they would have needed to speak to people ASAP. Hence the batches. I'm simply implying you may all have gone hard on that corporate card...

But WHY were you implying that? You were saying I’d come in late, which I hadn’t. You’re backtracking because you hadn’t read it properly.

I’m utterly heartbroken that you don’t think I’m nice. I just can’t think how I’ll go on.

In your opening post, I really felt like the way management and HR handled this was really unprofessional, and being told off for going to the pub was unfair. I still think there was a shocking lack of communication and tact on their part, but the tone of your replies to other posters is really quite unpleasant. So I wonder, is this how you interact with people at work? Is this the kind of response Angela anticipated each time she asked you to do something? If so, I am not surprised Angela bit their hand off to get away!

Ha! You very clearly haven’t met her!

I’m not sure why people are trying to invent a narrative about some poor bullied little girl. This was a head of department on a six-figure salary who alienated her entire team, as well as several other senior figures.

Honestly, I don't know why you posted. Yes there are a few snattery replies I get that, but your tone to folk who are actually and reasonably telling you what they think is really quite rude.

It's a fecking storm in a teacup where you personally are concerned. Angela is being managed out,obviously to your relief. And HR have been trying to put a lid on your managers incompetence in sending you off to gossip, and you all as a team for gossiping. The fact they told a few of you later is neither here nor there.

Jesus thank fluck I've retired😅 dealt with too much of this drama over the years.

I think everyone should just stop commenting now. The OP clearly has issues with being told anything l. I don't know why you asked for advice on here your really very rude in your responses.

You are HRs worst nightmare. You have been told something quite straightforward. The lot of you should of had some sense not to go to the pub despite being told and you should all be able to hold your tongues in your head to not sit at your desk gossiping when someone had lost their job regardless of what you think of them.

Angela's redundancy should have been kept private, your direct manager is a fault.
Complaining about it won't change the situation.

I'm so glad that the majority of organisation have moved away from drinking culture over the last 20 years. I'm genuinely shocked an organisation thinks it's acceptable for workers to get pissed at lunchtime, let alone on company money!
This sounds like an almighty cockup by various managers who clearly aren't competent at their jobs.
And finally, the OP really does not come out well in all this, I hope you aren't as arrogant, defensive and goody in real life otherwise you'd be a nightmare to work with!

Doesn’t matter. She has a right to be treated with dignity at work. You’ve all behaved like a pack of bloodthirsty trolls. Angela would be the one who comes out on top at an employment tribunal and (rightfully!) receive a substantial settlement, and you and your toxic work colleagues are responsible for that.

Your manager started this, HR were clumsy but they also have a duty to point out to you and your team why what you all did was wrong (apparently your manager can’t be trusted to spell it out for you). “It was under a manager’s request” doesn’t cut it here. The request was an unreasonable management request so you did not need to follow it, and you should have been smart enough to know that.

You had a role in this entire sh*t show even if it was just ignorance and stupidity. Stop slinging mud or expect that it will come back to you. And if your manager makes a request like this again in the future hopefully you have learned to call them out.

You don't seem to understand. Never mind.

What a hoo haa over absolutely nothing. Forget it for goodness sake, it's a non issue

What threat would this be? Please show me the threat.

Meant to ask ApricotFan, how long has Ange worked for the company? Is it less than 2 years?

Think Angela should be brought back as head of HR and current head of HR should be one being made redundant. Think whole firm would be happier in this case
Bad or incompetent upper HR are the worst. One in ancillary company to mine does zero work but makes others in her office do everything for her. The whole building knows this, but upper management can't do anything about her as she has mountains of dirt on the companies practices and former sacked bosses. If she was booted the whole company will likely fold.
This has been going on since before I started at my company in 2018.

This all sounds like such a bodge, so unprofessional. To instruct staff to go, then complain that they did. The actual release of any info re an employees employment, and the mention of redundant when no due process has been conducted, is utterly unprofessional.

HR and the Manager sound questionable.

But I can't believe what a hard time op is getting for going to the pub, as instructed, following orders. Unless it's morally and ethically no integrity , or illegal or professionally unsound, none of which this is, we expect employees to follow orders. Why would have she refused?

Yes, it’s less than two years. So theoretically they can just get rid of her, but I suspect there has been or will be some sort of settlement.