To complain to HR… about HR?

[ApricotFlan]

Sorry, this might be a bit of a long one!

For a while now, the buzz at work has been that my head of department, Angela, was on borrowed time. Yesterday it was confirmed the rumours were true. Angela had been into her boss’s office and then went out seemingly for lunch, but never came back. Our team was then called into the boardroom and told that Angela had been made redundant, effective immediately.

Because there had already been gossip, Angela’s boss - now OUR boss until further notice - decided it was better that any speculation happened away from the office. He gave my line manager his corporate card and told him to take us all to the pub, so that any discussions would happen there.

This morning I and two of my colleagues arrived at around 9.15. We have a flexible start and end time, with the option to do anything from 8 - 4 to 10 - 6, and the rest of the team had arrived early. My colleague Louise told me that the Head of UK HR had pulled them all in and given them a dressing down for going to the pub, saying it looked like we were “celebrating”, and that Angela has most definitely NOT been made redundant and was in a process. Louise and the others had naturally told her that we’d simply done as we’d been told, and that it was our boss who’d said Angela had been made redundant. When Louise asked why my colleagues and I weren’t being included in the meeting, Head of HR had admitted she’d forgotten about us 🙄

Anyway, Head of HR appears and asks me and my two colleagues to come to the boardroom. I’m expecting an apology for forgetting us and a reiteration of the redundancy process, seeing as she now knows a) we were following orders and b) that it was our boss who’d told us about the redundancy.

No. We got the exact same spiel about how bad it looked that we’d gone to the pub, couldn’t we see that it looked like we were celebrating - even a mawkish “Think how poor Angela would feel!” We were told again that she had absolutely NOT been made redundant and was in a process.

I said, “Sorry, I’m confused - Louise said she explained we were TOLD to go to the pub, and that Angela had been made redundant.” Head of HR got flustered saying “Well yes; she did, she did.” I then asked why we were there if she knew all this. She got huffy and said again that the point was that Angela had NOT been made redundant and that this should not be said in the office. I repeated that no one had said this other than management.

Later on in the day, Head of HR had said to Louise, “I didn’t offend you all earlier, did I?” Louise, to her credit, had said that yes, frankly she did, and that the issue had actually been with our boss.

I am torn on what to do. If any other manager had treated me like this and been so inept, I would be straight on to HR. But it IS HR who have made the almighty fuck-up. I cannot comprehend how the supposed head of the UK function would a) haul the team in without even speaking to their boss, b) forget three members of said team even exist and c) STILL give the team members they forgot the original lecture, when their mistake had already been corrected! The incompetence is breathtaking.

Despite it being the UK Head of HR at fault, I do have options. One would be to complain to my boss and get him to take it up with them. The other is to go to the Global Head of HR. It’s a big move, but I just cannot fathom how this all went so badly wrong, and why I’m being hauled in to answer for the mistakes of management . Should I take this further?

It’s starting to feel like it’s more trouble than it’s worth. Too many fuck-ups to know where to begin!

Bloody nora

Ive retired 3 years ago and was feeling a little nostalgic for my old haunts but nah, thank fuck I'm out after 50 years of corporate shite.

Op, it's not huge. Everyone behaved unprofessionally, I mean sending you to the pub to gossip off site. Angela is either made redundant or in a process and anyone with a titter of wit knows its not professional to gossip about it.

If she's in a process HR are shitting themselves as some contact in the organisation could phone her and say oh did you know your team were in the pub paid for by the company. That opens the organisation up to all sorts of allegations.

Your manager was a dick for suggesting it, HR should have pulled him up on it and possibly did, but having a meeting to hammer home to you all to keep your cheapers shut and stop gossipping was possibly a knee jerk reaction. And they should have waited till you were all there, yes.

But what do you want now? While I think you're being quite snippy with folk giving their opinion, my advice would be to speak to your manager, say that the team got a bollocking when you were following his/her orders, and that you want to ensure its not in your personnel file. And let him follow up on that.

Agree.

you need to find your inner Elsa.

From the information @ApricotFlan has given this sounds like many of the manager exits I’ve been aware of/have assisted with. It’s a settlement agreement/without prejudice conversations situation. Commonly used for more senior staff, who are not performing well or have lost the dressing room (as it sounds like has happened based on OP’s info).

Angela may well have started the ball rolling on this process herself and the company has bitten her hand off. The fact it sounds like Angela was in for the beginning of a day, was in her manager’s office, then went to lunch but didn’t come back suggests to me this might be the case. Every company I’ve worked for that had decided to start without prejudice conversations arranged for a meeting with the member of staff off-site: a key reason being to avoid the type of awkwardness that has been present in Angela’s situation.

It sounds like the management and HR weren’t on the same page about the info shared with the OP and colleagues about Angela’s sudden departure. Head of HR was seemingly at pains to tell them all, “no, no it’s not a redundancy, she’s in a process.” This could all be another Head of HR and management cock-up but you’d have normally decided on what to brief staff about why a manager is not at work before having the conversation with the manager being exited.
Makes me think that again Angela brought up a settlement agreement conversation and management were caught unprepared but thought, “yes, let’s go ahead.”

Angela is likely going to come out of this with a reasonable sum and won’t have faced the ignominy of being performance managed. She’ll be ok.

This. You should not have gone to the pub, do you not know how to be professional? If my boss told me to do something inappropriate I’d refuse. How you can’t see this is your error makes me think you’d be next on redundancy list of i was in management. but complain away and show yourself up!

Was it a quiet drink in the pub to smooth over tensions, or were you (collectively) actually celebrating?

Out of interest - in what way was she a bad manager?

Ì already have a feeling that you are not a particularly nice person.

Well OP, if Angela ever gets wind of what happened she will get a lot more than what was agreed in the settlement conversation to get het.

This has professional defamation written all over it, or some such claim, IMO.

Employment legal specialists have worked with far less than this.

So your logic here is that my doing what the person who would be making any recommendations for redundancies instructed me to do would put me at risk of redundancy?

Come on - think that one through.

And I have the feeling you’re not a particularly bright one.

You were sent to the pub, on the company purse, on company time, by your boss.
I don't think you had much choice did you?
They didn't offer the choice to head home early?.

It’s an interesting theory that she met have instigated it, and one I hadn’t considered. My gut instinct says she’s too arrogant to have realised how bad things had got, but maybe even she saw the writing on the wall.

I think you could well be right about some kind of compromise agreement being involved. She hasn’t been here long enough to be automatically entitled to something, but a decent sum to go quickly and quietly is a distinct possibility.

HR also have a hand in who gets sacked…so I don’t think firebombing them is a good move.

Also, how identifiable is this thread? If it gets picked up by the DM, you’re absolutely fucked.

Case proven M'lord.

Awwh, did you get hurt in the feels? Funny how it was okay for you to make a dig at me!

What in earth do you do that this minor incident constitutes “so many fuck ups you don’t know where to begin”?!

this is barely an issue, it’s not ideal but it’s certainly not worth a complaint.

If you disagree -which in sure you will - I suggest contacting the global HR head and see what he thinks. You’ll be following swiftly in Angela’s footsteps I’d imagine.

If you disagree -which in sure you will - I suggest contacting the global HR head and see what he thinks. You’ll be following swiftly in Angela’s footsteps I’d imagine.

😆😆😆

To be fair I doubt global HR would lose any sleep over this - the management / pub / speculation bit, yes, but not your part in it.

I just don't think you have any particular grounds for complaint since everything you've raised was also addressed on the spot - quite properly. But I'm sure they're capable of saying so and moving on, or rustling up an apology to your group. I'd be advising your manager to apologize anyway if I were them.

This sounds like the workplace is being run by small children. Wtaf? Gossiping openly about someone who’s jacket is on a shoogly peg, and then the boss telling you all to go to the pub and do your gossip there

To be fair I doubt global HR would lose any sleep over this - the management / pub / speculation bit, yes, but not your part in it

Global HR head wont care about any of it.

They will think the OP is odd for escalating to them when a) the issue has been resolved and b) there are more appropriate people to raise the concern with.

You are literally not taking on board anything anyone is replying. Every single one of your replies is passive aggressive and patronising.

This situation is not about you at all. You should not have gone to the pub. It looks bad. Even if your told to by your boss you did not need to go. Or speak up. Would you have gone and jumped off a cliff if they told you to do that to get out of the office?

HR probably can't believe grown adults went along with all of this. You haven't had anything happen apart from being told nobody should have gone as it looks bad. Which it does.

This isn't about you. You sound insufferable to work with.

HR are fixing the mess your boss made. Depending on circumstances you can't just make someone redundant out of the blue, there is literally "A Process" to go through before it is final.
By announcing it as a fait-acompli, you boss has made it look like there is no process. Then sending you to the pub, which, depending on circumstances, actually could be construed as the team went out celebrating.
Both of those things open up the company to getting sued by 'Angela', so HR are doing damage limitation.

This is quite messed up.
I think you would be right to write a joined letter/ email to HR tops, from all of you, stating what you just said here. Your management told you to do something and gave you some news. Then this HR lady went ballistic on you all, for both things. None of you have done anything wrong. I think a team letter will be strong. Then HR or your boss or whoever is called into a meeting to explain these shenannigans to the high above cannot say it was the team. Because the team is speaking the truth together.
None of you should say a word to Angela. Do not contact her. If she is in a process, any contact from her to your team or the team to her may mess it all up big deal. Zilch convo about any of this to Angela.

Yes, you are right. But HR needs to bring that up with the instigator of all this. Not with the team, in an aggressive manner. A gentle communication to the team, yes. But OP did not describe it as such. But like HR did take it with the team, who had done or said nothing wrong.