Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

I also see no problem with transwomen using the male toilets as they have cubicles that are lockable.

“But I have a trans family member and they are not any of the things that get levelled at them.”

So we are back to the ‘lovely friend’ argument. What is the compromise to all this then op? Are women entitled to single sex spaces or not?

Let’s just remind everyone that it is NOT women who have brought this situation about. We doubly suffer by it being foisted on us against our consent, and then we are burned at the stake for being angry about it. And some of our sisters are the ones lighting the pyres!

I could weep for my daughters’ generation who are some of the most passionate handmaids of this ideology. They are too naive and not grizzled enough to understand misogyny in all its guises.

I do not weep for ‘old school transsexuals’. They are the pioneers of this ridiculous fiction that is now causing real harm to children and women.

Also Sarah Jane Baker. No bollocks etc allegedly due to self surgery. And violent. Compassion for him? No chance.

If you think that banning trans women from toilets is going to make us safe from men then I think you might be disappointed

How can we tell which trans identifying people do or don’t fit those categories though? And no, AGP men are not deserving of any compassion whereas teen girls wanting to escape impending womanhood are. But medicalising their trauma isn’t the answer.

Heretic. 😆

Women are the ones expected to provide the understanding and compassion. But to make any mildly-expressed appeal for the understanding and compassion to be extended to us? Well, that's asking far too much.

Well sure that's women making that choice - men aren't at risk from a woman using male toilets are they!

But women ARE vulnerable to men. Which is why there are protected sex-based spaces where men - however they are dressed - are not permitted access.

It's so painfully obvious why.

Transwomen are still men.

So what are we afraid of then?

@RetiringRita they're so 1) Predictable 2) Dull and 3) Repetitive.

Even if I were inclined to want to debate with them, they just trot out the same old points on repeat.

You're not alone in your opinion. It's just a very vocal few members with multiple user names and AI bots.

It's not going to make us less safe to exclude all males now is it?

Please explain why you think males should have access to female spaces?

You don’t make it easier though.

Why do you think single sex segregation exists?

In the UK? Can you please provide a link for attacks, even anecdotal evidence, of male people with transgender identities in male single sex spaces in the UK?

"I’m not sure anyone would seriously pose that a trans woman would be accepted with open arms in a male toilet."

There are numerous people on MN who have told us just that. Both friends and family of male people with transgender identities and male people with transgender identities themselves have stated very clearly that their loved one / they use male single sex spaces. You have provided a reference to a USA survey and nothing else that is UK based.

"Im not the type of person to want to shame anyone to be honest."

And yet, you did so.

”I don’t hear anyone caring about the fact that a fully transitioned trans woman has no safe place to use the loo now.”

Considering the amount of work feminists have done in the past, is you shaming feminists for a situation that was not feminist's fault.

Why should feminists be campaigning for male people's needs to be met, by the way?

I am not afraid of transwomen using male spaces why should I be?

Nothing will ever make women fully safe from men but being allowed (in life and law) to say no to them when they demand we give them what they want is a good start, is it not?

You're not alone in your opinion. It's just a very vocal few members with multiple user names and AI bots.

Laughable. A HUGE proportion of the public totally agree with us. YOU are out of step.

The irony. This type of post is Predictable, Dull and oh so Repetitive.

Why did you ask me then? Did you have a point?

Sigh.

Oh the ‘if men want to get into toilets they will’ argument.

Best not bother to lock your front door or buy house insurance then. If burglars want to get in and rob you blind they will.

🙄

Why should any female people have to be 'afraid' of a male person to want to have a space away from a male person?

I mean, I have personally been abused by a male person with a transgender identity, does that mean that I should have to share a space that I am vulnerable and where I want no male people above the age of a child to be in? Because you and some others don't see the need?

Back to my original point…we are focusing on the wrong group of people. Saying no to men hasn’t really done much good so far in the history of forever has it?

Completely agree @RetiringRita

I also noticed Ereshkigalangcleg took the last post on the thread and declared "fin" just so no one else could post because she needs the last word. It's a habit of hers that has not gone unnoticed.

I mean there about one of these for every 100 of the reverse, so not really the equivalent is it ?

And how do you think the new law would have protected you?

Why not? Why so inconsistent?

Is it possibly because the pro-trans forums get much nastier and more unpleasant than women on Mumsnet? 🤔

There aren't two groups of people. They're all men.

Are you suggesting women shouldn't ever say no to any men about anything because it's a waste of time?