Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

Transwomen are male.
That's exactly the group we need to be focusing on.

Just because some males are perfectly safe around women & girls now means all males are?

Can you please tell me what the difference is between a male person who has had their testes and penis removed due to injury or disease and one who has elected to have this penis and testes removed to fit their philosophical belief about their identity?

They really don’t

Post with evidence of all the hateful vitriol that wasn’t forthcoming in the previous 999 comments, and has yet to be presented here?

What you’re failing to take into account is those ‘old school transsexuals’ were actually AGP ie got their sexual thrills out of dressing as women. Their thrills increased the more others acted as if they were actual women too. So carrying out their fetish in public is using others as props for sexual satisfaction. This in itself is as grim as men who get their kicks out of exposing themselves, or voyeurs hiding cameras in changing rooms. Except these are criminal offences but for some weird reason if they say they’re trans it’s suppose to be fine.
it’s a con!

Being trans is not a philosophical belief.

lol multiple examples have already been pointed out on this thread the posters who like it just keep saying it’s fine cos it’s “true” 😂

I didn't ask you anything. I commented on your description of fully transitioned. The lack of question mark might have given that away.

Wow so posters can’t voice their concerns but trans haters can start multiple threads , monopolise and hijack whenever they feel like it.🤔

A male beliving he is a woman is such a belief, as is a female believing she is a man.

There hasn’t been a new law, just a clarification on the meaning of the word woman in a law that already existed.

No. We are focusing on ALL male people.

Robust safeguarding requires there to be no sub-groups excluded from a characteristic for assessing the risk to another group. We learned this the hard way in the past.

Therefore, no male people should be excluded from the assessment regardless of their gender identity.

Show me ONE post from a "Trans Hater".

Just one.

Oh dear. I think you’re missing the point entirely. “They’re all men” is a highly disingenuous statement. It makes your point nicely though so let’s forget about the fact that it’s a ridiculous statement.

What you mean the many deleted posts, bit difficult that. 🙄

For anyone who wants to know what should be considered for evaluating risk of this sub group of males to show that they have a risk level not less than any other male in the UK of committing sex crime, have a read through the statistics for males who have transgender identities who commit sex crimes in the UK. But for you Tangfastic

Firstly, This was a question answered earlier this year:

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2024-12-16/20298.

Question from Rebecca Paul (MP Reigate): To ask the Secretary of State for Justice, with reference to the HMPPS Offender Equalities Annual Report 2023-2024, published on 28 November 2024, how many of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female were convicted of a sexual offence.

Answer from Sir Richard Dakin (MP Scunthorpe): 23 December 2024
Of the 245 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as male (i.e. those who now identify as women, non-binary or gender-fluid) on 31 March 2024, 151 were convicted of a sexual offence. This includes both contact and non-contact sexual offences. Offence data was not available for 1 individual.

Of the 50 transgender prisoners who reported their legal gender as female on 31 March 2024, the number convicted of a sexual offence is five or fewer. We do not provide exact data for such small sample sizes as it risks identification of individuals. This approach is in line with our standards on data disclosure.

To put this into perspective with what we already knew from FOI information. I posted the information to a regular poster from FWR on another thread, who did not acknowledge the information at all, so it seems sticking the info here is appropriate:

Here is data from the MoJ

Here is an FOI request from 30 April 2024

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/populationoftransgenderoffend/response/2641337/attach/html/7/FOI%20240322022%20Annex%20A.xlsx.html

Up to the 31st March 2023, the MoJ stated that of the 88 male transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was

48 rapes,
0 attempted rapes,
10 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
13 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
0 indecent assault or gross indecency
6 sexual activity with a child under 16
0 other

77 listed here.... BUT there is a total of 88 in the total so there is 11 crimes not noted.

Possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child has not been recorded in this FOI.

However, there is are further discrepancies in the data of the following when you look at TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE.

1 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity
3 rapes
2 sexual activity with a child under 16
3 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,

This equals 9 additional... however the sum for TOTAL NUMBER OF TRANSGENDER PRISONERS SENTENCED FOR A PRINCIPAL SEXUAL OFFENCE is 99.

Therefore 2 more sex crimes have been hidden from this data.

There were 203 males who were declared as transgender in the prison at the time.

There were 24 NB who were not segregated into male and female. What is key here, is that THIS IS NON-GRC HOLDERS. And we all know that males holding GRCs have increased and they are excluded from this data. NO female people with transgender identities were sentenced to a principal sexual offence. There were 41 female people with transgender identities in UK prisons at that time.

As a comparison, I have stats that say as of April 2019 that the general male MoJ data for male sex offenders was just 16.8% of the male prison population.
And there were 3.3% of female people in UK prisons were sex offenders.

I will leave you to do your own sums. But... even using the figure of 88/203 is 43.3%. (And that doesn't include making or possessing indecent photographs of a child remember.)

By the way this the data from a FOI in 2021. And I checked this data myself from the data source and it was correct at the time. So, it will give some back ground to the above.

The ones that say that in the March/April 2021 data collection period, the MoJ stated that of the 97 transgender prisoners with one or more sexual offences.

The breakdown was
40 rapes,
8 attempted rapes,
31 possessing or making indecent photographs or pseudo photographs of child,
32 Sexual assault or attempted sexual assault,
20 causing or inciting a child under 16 to engage in sexual activity,
10 indecent assault or gross indecency
9 sexual activity with a child under 16
27 other

The 97 sex offender transgender prisons collected 177 sentences between them.

And that according to that FOI 197 prisoners are transgender.

This is why NO SUB GROUP OF MALE PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXEMPT FROM RISK ASSESSMENT. This group of male people still retain the same male pattern of committing sex and violent crime, regardless of gender identity or stage of transition.

Its a factual statement.

Men are adult human males and transwomen are adult human males.

Yes absolutely right, my mistake. Doesn’t change the outcome though or the fact we are no more protected today than we were before

The actual facts are much more complicated that you believe they are .

Please show us the evidence of the biological markers that can be used to diagnose who is and isn't transgender.

I haven't seen any deleted posts - what times were they? Because even though a post is deleted the time of posting is still visible.

You do know that right?🙄

No they really aren't.

Transwomen are all male they were male at birth. They remain male sex their whole life. They are men.
What exactly is it you think are the actual.more complicated facts?

Several were on the last thread .

To be fair, it has hilariously resulted in this tantrum TAAT from an OP who was obviously raging that she couldn't dish out a few more insults on the last thread.

I saw this thread come up in Active and had a wee chuckle as I thought 'I bet it's that poster' and Lo! It was!

Just as an aside, TAAT's are normally deleted as being against guidelines but I don't report these type of ones because they are brilliant examples of the 'I have evidence but I'm much too busy to post it. Google it yourself!' type of arguments from the TRA's who avoid threads like the Peggie case like the plague and flock onto these or the pronoun threads.

Honestly, and with respect to your views, feelings and opinions….a trans woman is not in the same group as a man. You can certainly have an opinion that they are, and they are both men according to the law…but anyone with eyes can see they are a very different group of people.