Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

What is fully transitioned to you?

If it is surgery to remove someone’s penis, can you please tell me what the difference is between a male person who has had their testes and penis removed due to injury or disease and one who has elected to have this penis and testes removed to fit their philosophical belief about their identity?

Nope.
I made a generalisation about mumsnet threads and I made an generalisation about a set of ideas and attitudes. If we can’t do that we can’t even have a conversation.
There is a very important distinction to be drawn between generalising about ideas and generalising about people. One is necessary, the other is discrimination and prejudice.

100% of trans women in women's sport think they have a right to be there. Hardly a sweeping generalisation.

You see politicians that think trans women are men are instantly unelectable to me. If they cannot identify facts staring them in the face they are either not very bright or happy to gaslight their constituents, neither of which would make a good elected representative IMHO. Each to their own though.

I think it stems from the fact that the majority of potters on here ( as in real life, according to the polls) disagree with them, so they see it as a "pile on". It isn't, it's just the lots of people have a different view to them and are expressing it.

Probably since around the time adopting the position of aggressor but at the same time shouting 'I'm being bullied' put someone automatically in the right.

It's as disingenuous as they come and DARVO to the nth degree. But we do know of one particular movement which has DARVO down to a slick, well-oiled machine; claiming extreme vulnerability whilst threatening, doxing and intimidating the demographic who they seek to claim is in fact oppressing them. Cf. terfisaslur.com.

No one is stereotyping.

Trans women are men. The propensity to offend towards women doesn’t change because they say they are women. Women still have the right to have their own spaces. Away from men.

That is the issue.

And of course we need to think of them too. I don’t hear anyone caring about the fact that a fully transitioned trans woman has no safe place to use the loo now.

Most women did care, at least a little bit, once upon a time. Even on FWR if you go back 5- 10 years women were mostly very careful to caveat their need for female spaces with concern about 'real transwomen'.

As time went on every polite ask or plea to consider women and girls, no matter how mild, was been met with violence and threats of rape and death, stalking, bullying and loss of employment and so on. This has resulted in a no fucks, zero tolerance stance from women who have experienced it or witnessed it in the last decade.

The window of opportunity for Trans orgs, activists and politicians to partake in sensible, respectful and fair conversations was completely squandered by all of them.

It’s not hateful to acknowledge reality: men are the main threat to women’s safety, well-being and security.

Since when was this hateful to acknowledge?

How did I guess you’d decide you would be able to have your cake and eat it, it’s entirely the same thing 😂

If you want to make a point I suggest actually presenting an argument.

I’m not sure if you’re goading or not - but taking your question at face value…trans identifying people have been found to be 4 times more likely to be victims of violent crime. You can google it “Williams institute” among others. I’m not sure anyone would seriously pose that a trans woman would be accepted with open arms in a male toilet.
Im not the type of person to want to shame anyone to be honest. Im merely giving my opinion. The fact that people have petitioned for trans spaces is all well and good, but there aren’t many are there. And just because the government got it wrong, shouldn’t mean we discount the problem it obviously causes.

Exactly.

YANBU.
All the trans people Ive met have been just that....people!
They are out there doing the same stuff as everybody else. In fact I would struggle to think of an instance where somebodies gender was relevant in my interaction with them.

Maybe if I played competitive sports or lurked in public toilets for hours I might have a different opinion...but I dont!

@RetiringRita I don't really understand.

You seem to agree with the GC feminists on the facts and expected policies.

So you don't seem to be on the fence at all?

You just want the GC views to be enacted (eg no males in female sport) but everyone be very polite about it? Being polite and budging up and being kind seems to be what got us in this mess in the first place isn't it as the more women budged over the more the TW took without asking.

It’s not women’s job to sort out facilities for men. If you think it’s a worthy cause, that’s great. Go for it. I am equally happy for men to use the men’s facilities or unisex facilities.

Males at risk from other males should be given access to female spaces is your stance yes?
Are females not allowed spaces to be safe from the risk of males then only males who call themselves women are afforded that safety?

I have a huge amount of compassion for the two trans people I know, and for any other trans person who is suffering. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to feel like there’s something wrong with your body. I treat them with respect. I use the names they ask to be known by. If anyone tried to abuse them due to their trans status, I’d be right there next to them.

But, if you’re wanting that compassion to extend beyond my empathy, into giving away women’s rights to single sex spaces, or pretending I think something I don’t, then absolutely not. Because that’s not just showing kindness or compassion. That’s sitting down, shutting up and giving away rights that women had to fight tooth and nail to get.

The likelyhood that man will claim to be trans to get into a women's bathroom to assault a female has got to be the most stupid, overused argument I have ever heard! Funny, because the only time I’ve ever heard that argument being used is when anti women campaigners haven’t bothered to listen to women’s concerns and have reduced it down to that because they’re trying to belittle and ridicule the perfectly sensible and valid points that women are making.

trans identifying people have been found to be 4 times more likely to be victims of violent crime.

Not in the UK, they haven't.

'we were unable to publish prevalence estimates by gender identity because there were too few cases within those who identified as trans to produce reliable estimates'

https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/violentcrimeratefortransgenderpeoplecomparedwiththegeneralpopulation2013to2023

Reported this thread for just another attempt to bait. OP you should be thoroughly ashamed for your disingenuous virtue signalling on the back of all the women who fought so hard for our sex based rights!

Everyone knows it’s nothing to do with trans and all to do with males. But it’s easier for some people to pretend it’s “anti trans” than admit that males in female single sex spaces could be a problem.

Great, good for you, but that’s not the point.
Not everyone feels the same as you and it’s okay for them to express that.

I’ve seen plenty of women in dresses using men’s loos at busy venues.
So long are there are cubicles with locks I don’t see the big deal.

I would personally consider it to be anyone who was on HRT and no longer had a penis. Although to be fair, I’m very comfortable around all the trans people I’ve met (not a huge number to be fair but as a regular festival goer I’m not a stranger to most types of human)!

They'd still be a man though. Just one who has chosen elective medical treatment.