Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

Why don’t you think they have “a safe place to use the loo”? We’re supposed to be ok with men, they actually are men, so what’s the problem? Other vulnerable men have to use the men’s. You sound like you’re uncomfortable with masculine appearing women using the women’s, they aren’t going to be safer in the men’s are they?

Why is it that the compassion is only expected to be extended to trans people and their supporters?

It's very clear that women have been discriminated against when it comes to our rights and that trans people have been prioritised.

Where is the compassion for women? Because I never ever see that coming from trans peopel and their allies.

Women have been raped, sexually assaulted, subjected to voyeurism, gaslit, lost jobs , been denied medical treatment, assaulted. And yet no compassion.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

What stereotypes? What list?

Your post is quite difficult to understand, OP. It's quite disconnected.

Understanding and compassion? Sure. For everyone. Yes?

@RetiringRita YABU pretending that the previous thread was a genuine question. These threads are goady. Personally I take exception to being told I'm hateful just for asserting my rights. So yes, I'm going to react badly to being lectured by individuals who think it's fine for trans activists to chant hate speech, but women must "be kind" whatever they're subjected to. Not that you'll read this, let alone take it on board.

I have read both threads and did contribute on the first one.
I know this has probably being said already but if the space or provision is female or woman only why do some people expect males to have access?

I don’t hear anyone caring about the fact that a fully transitioned trans woman has no safe place to use the loo now.

No, because he can use the men's. Or the 'gender neutral', if he doesn't want to use the men's.

YANBU OP, most people I know in real life have no opinion on trans people but here so many people seem to have a very negative attitude towards them.

Are you equating my generalisation about mumsnet threads to a generalisation about trans people? Are these the moral equivalent in your mind?

Trans people, or boundary pushing men?

OP would you please give your thoughts on this earlier post of mine?

I'm finding your stances very confusing

You were the one calling other posters thick as mince.

Oh. I see.

Called a liar? I'm not sure. But if you make grand, unsubstantiated claims about hateful comments you allege are constantly made on MN, without one shred of evidence to back them up, then yes, you'll be challenged on the veracity of those claims.

Telling us how much truth we’re allowed to say is censorship and the misogynistic patronising doesn’t help your argument.

Trans people.

I think you might need to explain what you think is lacking @RetiringRita . The vast majority of posts I’ve seen say the same thing- do what you want at home in your own time, we’ll respect your pronouns but don’t expect to be welcomed with open arms into safe spaces. That seems completely reasonable to me, especially when you look at the vitriol directed by certain trans activists at people who have dared to suggest this publicly. So what are you looking for?

How did we get to the point where disagreeing with someone and telling them so is bullying?

You surely must understand that as soon as someone says ' trans hate' posters are going to point out its not about that but about protecting women ( hence the mentions of female only spaces you refer to in your OP). This is a problem caused by the Trans movement attempting to call everyone who wanted to talk about women's rights hateful and bigoted.

Stop blaming women for the way this issue has gone. We were the ones trying a decade ago to have a reasonable discussion and the trans lobbyists tried to silence us, get us sacked and verbally abused us with slurs and libel.

And hateful and vitriolic apparently.

Could you please provide any evidence that there is a major safety issue for those male people with transgender identities who currently do use the male single sex spaces? I can only assume from the OP that even the people OP knows use male single sex spaces. And we are told reliably by many other posters on MN that their male friends with transgender identities use male single sex spaces.

Perhaps you have seen evidence that others have not seen. Can you link us up please?

Has there been a campaign to address this major safety issue in male single sex spaces? If not, why not?

And there are many sub groups of male people who could be said to be as or more vulnerable to attack in male single sex spaces. Have they been given special access to female single sex spaces? No? Why not?

”I don’t hear anyone caring about the fact that a fully transitioned trans woman has no safe place to use the loo now.”

Of course, you seem to not know that feminists proposed third spaces over a decade or two ago. It was rejected and little more was done.

Why do you feel confident to attempt to shame feminists and women’s rights activists with the above statement after years of ‘no debate’ from entrenched transactivist groups who have campaigned to have their gender prioritised over sex when sex matters?

I’m not uncomfortable with anyone to be honest. I use the mainly unisex loos in Scandinavian countries during work trips with no anxiety. I use unisex festival loos all summer long without anxiety. I used the term “more comfortable” but really I’m probably only uncomfortable using loos late at night and that’s not going to be solved by anyone. Because if someone wants to follow me in there, it’s not going to matter what the law says. I mean the law says a man can’t rape or otherwise be violent to me. Isn’t going to stop someone if that’s their agenda.
i appreciate it’s not just about toilets…and I also appreciate there are bad people in every single area of life. I just think we are focused on the wrong group of people and that some of the key issues could have been fixed more simply and with less dramatics

You are clearly making negative sweeping generalisations about gender critical posters on mumsnet, and @AccidentallyWesAnderson pointed out two even more overt ones. So maybe rein it in a bit, as it’s against talk guidelines, as you noted.

I've never understood the idea that you can be 'shouted down' on a text based forum. Surely you just type your words in the little box and hit post and your words appear along with everyone else's. Everyone can read them. It must just mean 'most posters disagree with me.'

Unless this is about the poor poster who was inadvertently doing the

bigly letters

and didn't know how to make it stop?

The dramatics you mention, come mostly from a bunch of men being told no for the first time.

What are you talking about.

What do you consider a fully transitioned transwomen bearing in mind that hormones and surgery are not required to be either covered in the EA under gender reassignment or for a gender recognition certificate to be issued