Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

Compassion. The one commodity rarely if ever demanded from men, but of which women are expected to have an inexhaustible supply.

As a twice rape-victim, I don't think I've ever heard three more offensive words than 'reframe your trauma'. Infamously uttered by a prominent TRA, this is the attitude of someone who took up a post advertised for a woman, allegedly to help vulnerable women. Where is the compassion there?

Where was the compassion for Vancouver Rape Crisis - pretty much the first one the TRAs made a beeline for with their threats, intimidation and vandalism? It's now somewhat tellingly rebranded itself as 'Rape Relief and Women's Shelter'.

Or how about Sarah Summers, who sought support from Sussex Rape Crisis only to find herself retraumatised by the presence of a male and excluded when she objected. She did not want trans 'women' excluded entirely - simply one group - in a rape bloody crisis centre, of all places - which was women only. Her only recourse is now through the courts.

When women are in need of compassion - especially in the face of trauma inflicted upon us by men we are told to sit down, shut up, and 'reframe' our trauma, and that 'bigots can be victims too'. We are told by men (yes they are men) we are 'weaponising' our trauma when they are the ones who overwhelmingly inflicted that trauma in the first place (to the tune of 98% of sex offenders being male).

I have rarely in my lifetime seen a grass-roots political lobby group sink this low.

As for those demanding compassion and understanding from but not for women, you know exactly where you can stick your compassion and understanding. Broad hint - the sun don't shine there.

But whatever feelings a TW is experiencing they aren't down to being a woman. We might experience some of the same feelings, for example anxiety. But they have nothing to do with our sex/gender. They are just feelings.

Of course as a woman I'll have some experiences a man or TW would never have.
And vice versa. I've never experienced a boner at an awkward time for example. My male friends tell me it's very embarrassing.

But a man/TW has never experienced getting their period when they don't expect it and having to try and find the nearest shop.

Delusion.

I would be happy to quote your posts on it to set out why I have reached the conclusions I have. Would that be acceptable to you?

In order to know that you are something you have to be able to define it.

If you read what they post on places like reddit for more than 5 minutes it becomes very obvious IMO.

So, you telling women that 'we are focusing far too much attention in the wrong direction' is not you trying to shame those who focus on something that you have dismissed as being not important enough? This is not you dismissing women's concerns because you don't believe it is an issue?

And it wasn't your intention to shame feminists for something that you seem to have only superficial knowledge about what feminists had and have been campaigning for with the 'I don’t hear anyone caring about the fact that a fully transitioned trans woman has no safe place to use the loo now.'

Again, Tandora, you are telling a neuro-diverse person that you know better than they do what they think and understand.

On a thread about being compassionate to those who are different.

Feel free to keep doing it if you think it helps anyone understand anyone else's position more clearly.

I don't understand the difference.

Surely identifying as something you aren't is pretty much the same degree of weirdness, whether it's age, sex, race, etc?

What do you think is the difference?

Women are adult human females. That's what a woman is.
Your idea of a woman is based on feelings, thoughts & clothing.

Then @Bigwelshlamb can use the unisex spaces with the males with a trans identity. Problem solved

Why does that negate his female identity? Sounds awfully like you’re gatekeeping. How convenient when you can pick and choose whose “identity” is valid to suit your agenda. I’ll tell you that he was actually a government spokesperson for “trans rights” in Canada at some point. So not just some random weirdo you can dismiss as it doesn’t suit your worldview.

It’s the complete opposite of that. Those things are factual. A man being a woman is not. You saying that’s just the way it is doesn’t it make it so.

But they are not claiming something that is either objectively true or false. They are claiming something about their experience- that’s the part you are missing. This is their experience. Their experience is that, despite medical observation of chromosomes or genitals at birth, despite legal registration of sex a birth, they know they are a woman. And denying, repressing, refusing that knowledge / understanding of self , is so acutely disorienting it can result in the most profound psychological distress.

That is the reality of the matter: it doesn’t require you understand or explain it; it just requires you to accept it for what it is; which is very much real and something that to the best of our knowledge cannot be helped: nor does it need to be:

But it is factual: some people are trans. There are some people observed/ registered male, who know themselves to be female/ women. That is the reality of the existence of trans people.

Oh.... so I have answer your question when you have not answered the question as asked of you?

I don't believe that it works that way.

How about you answer my question, asked twice now, first, then I will answer this question here. Would you like me to repeat the question about the number of female people harmed again?

But why? If he can claim to be a woman, surely he can claim to be six? What is the difference?

I've got a list of things I've been called too. It used to just be your standard misogynistic man who called me names for sticking up for women but it has fairly diversified and intensified in the last few years.

I quickly learned that nobody gives a fuck about that. Because women.

It means a group of people with the thing in common that they all know they are women.

Nobody wants to see a schlong in the ladies dressing room.

What do you think of organisations that let such men use female facilities? We have seen a 40 yr old man in Canada competing in a swimming race against teenage girls and being allowed to use their changing room against protests from parents.

We have seen a 60 ish yr old man in the UK be allowed to hang out in the girls changing room (where teenage swimmers have to fully strip out of their competition suits).

We have seen a convicted sex offender allowed to use the female side of a naked sauna and sit with his erection out next to a 9 yr old girl in LA.

There is a man who identifies as a 6 yr old and hangs out in play groups playing with the children dressed as a frilly nylon doll in Canada.

What about the young man who was allowed to use the female changing facilities at the University of Pennsylvania and stand around with his section out while the girls had to strip their competition suits which apparently take about 15 mins to roll on?

Where do we draw the line?

But how do they know themselves to be women? If you don’t know what a woman is, how can you say you are one? Which criteria are they using?

Yes we know some people are delusional. What they are deluded about being is not a fact. Being delusional is.

But then you're saying that despite knowing it not to be the case, with all that evidence, they still call themselves women.

That's all several of us were saying. That actually they do know they aren't women.