Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

What you have in common is that you both know you are women.

To me that is much more in common than the simple fact of possessing a vagina.

Yes sometimes it’s important to distinguish who has a vagina and who doesn’t. But rarely.

I know I'm a horse. You cant understand how I could or why I would know that. So what? You don’t need to understand it: it just is.

You think trans people don’t understand their own experience?

Oh I’ve lost a bit of respect for your arguments now because that’s just silly. The fact that some people are trans goes back to the dawn of written word. Of course, if a man identified as an 8 yr old girl I would label him a weirdo with the rest of you

But that's what a woman is. It's not a feeling in your head. I only know I'm a woman because of that biology. In terms of feelings I only know how it feels to be me. I have no idea if my feelings match those of other women or not. Or some men. Who knows. Someone who is male cant know they are a woman, or what it feels like to be a woman. Because they aren't.

A TW is a TW. Nothing wrong with being a TW. But they are male and need to stay out of female spaces.

Some of them transition because they are sexually aroused by the thought of themselves as women.

Some of them transition because they suffer from terrible dysphoria and find their male bodies horribly distressing, to the point where they want to have their penises cut off.

Some of them transition because they are attracted to other men but can't accept themselves as homosexual.

What do I have in common with any of these groups?

@Tandora what single word would you use to describe an adult human female which doesn't include anyone who is not an adult human female

It’s quite simple.

Men or boys have no idea what it is and how life feels to be born female. They never will. They create their ‘identity’ based on assumptions and observations of women.

It’s quite bizarre that you can’t see this.

They are not gendered toilets it is provision based on sex.

Eg a work place can not hang urinals in both block of toilets and claim that both men and women have been given proper provision.

Its recognising that a male only has to expose his penis (if covered by clothing) and (if healthy) can expel urine while standing without soaking his legs or feet by direct it away from his body.

What is so hard to work out in this instance?

If you can manage to work out which physical shape your baldder is attached to you can work out which toilet block you should not enter.

But that's what a woman is.

But it’s not what a woman is. It’s your idea of what a woman is in your head.

They don't understand our experience.

I said that trans women can't define what they are identifying as,
Absolutely nothing to do with their experience.

Their experience as a trans person is an experience as a trans person not as a woman.

Two very different experiences.

But what's the difference between a man who strongly believes he is 8 and a man who strongly believes he is a woman. In neither case is the man actually describing reality

Ah, you've obviously never heard of Stefonknee Wolscht

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/transgender-father-stefonknee-wolscht-who-left-family-to-be-a-sixyearold-girl-uses-child-s-play-to-escape-adult-life-a6775051.html

So you can identify as a different sex but not age, or race (I’ll ask again). Why is one ok but not the other? How is it silly?

How can someone who is objectively male have "knowing they are an adult human female" in common with me?

Its exactly what everyone understood the word to mean until 5mins ago when some men decided they needed to be included.

What you have in common is that you both know you are women.

I'm quite convinced that transwomen know perfectly well that they're men.

For all that they insist that they "feel like women" I'm absolutely certain that they don't, not really.

They know jolly well that they're men.

Meet “Stephonknee”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/transgender-father-stefonknee-wolscht-who-left-family-to-be-a-sixyearold-girl-uses-child-s-play-to-escape-adult-life-a6775051.html

I didn’t say you had anything in common with any of those groups

So is he a weirdo as you say, or is he a “trans woman” or is he a 6 year old girl? @Tangfastic71

eta relates to my post just before this one

Yep weirdo it is

You are right that nobody knows what someone else’s experience of feeling like a woman is: I don’t know yours; you don’t know mine. A trans woman doesn’t know mine and I don’t know theirs.

think of it like a cognition akin to something like hunger. If I say im hungry, I am making no claims to how you or anyone else experiences hunger, I just know im hungry!

Can’t see your point though @Ereshkigalangcleg

This poster has their own meaning for words like "female" that doesn't relate to biological sex. There are often hundreds of posts talking at cross purposes before this is eventually revealed. Just to save everyone a bit of time, maybe.

I don't care who considers themselves to have the correct meaning but it's an odd way of having an actual discussion because they seem to have an understanding of what others mean by it but it's difficult to keep seeing the same discussions fall apart because of idiosyncratic word definitions.