Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

I don’t have any issue with anything you’ve said. Seems quite sensible to me.

Ah well, we all know that men have more trouble obeying the law than women do.

But then you don't believe trans women are women...

Both identity as women
Woman is not an identity. It's a word used to describe adult human females.

Desire for recognition and respect
Males want that to do they not?

Concern for safety in public spaces
Which humans cause women to be concerned in public?
Also do other groups not share that concerned?

Interest in or pressure around appearance
Men have similar pressures to look like insta guys

Need for gender-affirming health care
What is this?

Experience of gendered socialization
Males also experience this.

Shared communities and solidarity
Males also enjoy this with other males.

Family and relationship roles
Males also have this.

Impact of hormones on body and mood
Males also experience this.

Use of clothing, style, and makeup to express themselves

Males also do this, glam rock, male 80s bands drag queen's some gay men

Its seems your list is a list of commonalities between both sexes nothing is female specific that transwomen share is it?

Yes poor loves.

We should have more 'compassion'

Be careful now. Confronting this amount of cognitive dissonance could cause a head to explode.

Thank you

I am very sorry for your friend. But I find the whole concept of gendered toilets pretty weird tbh and unfortunately I don’t think there is any way to litigate human rights of any kind at the level of individual needs. It can only ever be a generalisation.

I haven’t heard such offensive, misogynistic claptrap since the last trans activist wheeled that lot out.

So my baby daughter fulfilled none of those criteria. Are you saying she was not female? Did she only become female when she was old enough to use make up to ‘express herself’? Or when she first experienced ‘gendered socialisation’?

Honestly, I have no more words.

I didn’t say that’s what makes them women. Blimey. It was in response to my saying that trans women have more in common with women than they do with men. But honestly at this stage I think I could tell you that the queen was a trans woman and you’d still argue that she has more in common with a man

Toilets aren't gendered.

They're either single sex or mixed sex.

Except that there is in segregating by sex.

Which was how things were always done in the UK, until entitled men decided they could override women's boundaries.

They're not gendered they are sexed.

Can you really not understand why we separate the sexes in places where people will be in a state of undress.

But you can't tell me one thing I have in common with trans women and all other women that we don't also have in common with men.

I genuinely don't understand what it is we are supposed to have in common. I don't agree with any of the things on your list and I find some of them quite offensive.

If you told me the queen was a trans woman I'd point out that she has given birth to two humans.

Oh wow, blast from the past with that ridiculous Scientific American article being brought up! What's next? Will it be the ludicrous Sex Redefined article or the completely debunked Fausto Sterling redhead argument?

I'll wait with baited breath!

Both identify as women

I don't "identify" as a woman FGS.
I was born one, so I am one.

BTW what do transwomen mean by "identifying as a woman"? I've often wondered, and it's been asked hundreds of times on these boards, and nobody seems to be able to answer the question.

But transwomen do have more in common with men. Due to being men. It's really quite simple.

It rounds like you need to learn appropriate social boundaries. Several of my male relatives would be horrified to see you (if you are actually female) in the mens. There are plenty of unisex toilets around if you cba to go in the ladies.

Both identity as women I don't identify as a woman.

so tired of this 🙄. It’s like white peiple claiming to be colour blind.

It wasn’t my intention to offend. I apologise for offending you.
If I look at trans friends they look, sound, act, smell, dress and walk more like me than my husband.
They have faced discrimination similar to mine and nothing like my husbands.
They have hormone fluctuations on hormone therapy that sound very similar to mine
I mean maybe my experience is different to yours … what trans women have you met that you felt had more in common with men?

So what does make them women?

You said earlier transwomen are women ...

Picture of a dress on one door, picture of trousers on the other. That’s not sex, that’s gender.

not saying I don’t know what you mean, I just think that’s quite funny with all the sex/gender/toilet stuff. But anyway no, I can’t. I can think of no reason why there shouldn’t just be toilets. We use the same ones at home, loads of offices have unisex, what’s the problem

Or worse that they don’t have an ethnicity!

Or when children don’t think they have an accent.

Do strangers use your home toilet?

The only trans women I know are people who I first knew as men and to be completely honest with you I don't see what is supposed to have changed post transition. They're just wearing eyeliner and nail varnish now. But they're still the same men they always were.

Trans women haven't experienced discrimination similar to yours, because yours is sex based. They experience any loss of male privilege as discrimination because they know no different. They are still privileged compared to women.

How do you know what a trans woman feels like on cross sex hormones? You've never experienced it. Just like they've never experienced being female.