Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

People can’t change chromosomes. People can absolutely change how they are seen by the world, in many ways

So basically predatory men will do anything to get what they want. I wish this was a surprise to me. I’ve seen some super radical feminists suggest we go Forest Troup on men, and sometimes I think they might have a point.

No they can't. They may think they can, but they can't.

Even if they could, they will always know themselves what sex they are. Why do they think they have the right to break the law?

I don’t believe in “gender” apart from it being a social construct based on stereotypes of sex, is that what you mean?

They can change how they think they are seen. Not everyone will see them as they wish to be seen.

How?

Please list how male people can change the way they are seen by the world except as a male person?

Nobody actually thinks trans women are women though.

There are just people who pretend they believe trans women are women, and people who don't pretend.

Well, if people cannot change their chromosomes, they most definitely cannot change their sex.

Men who “identify” as women are seen by most people as men who adopt the trappings of what they imagine being a woman is. It’s frequently insulting, parodic and sexist.

I didn't say there were my private places

But there does not exist any person who can grant permission for those single-sex exceptions in public places to be inclusive of people of the opposite sex.

Either they are universally accessible to all, or they are an exception to that under the Equality Act and no authority can over-rule the Supreme Court judgement as to what that means.

They don't have to be a private space for that to be true.

Ain’t that the truth, English class system has known that for centuries.

This. It’s very clear that no one actually thinks these men are women or there wouldn’t be a tenth of the amount of fuss and special pleading for them.

Sure.

Have you got an answer as to how many female people can be harmed before women can discuss their needs for single sex provisions without you telling them they should be directing their attention elsewhere and shaming them?

Please tell us clearly, how many female people should be harmed before you agree that male people over the age of about 8 years old should be excluded from all female single sex spaces?

That's no basis to enact laws upon though is it?

I could put on some surgeons scrubs and rock up to my local hospital but it doesn't mean I should be handed a scalpel and given directions to the operating theatre.

You know what I think.
We all carry cameras.
A male in female spaces is unlawful.
They tend to walk out if I walk in but I get not everyone wants to challenge men.
I have no fear of men. I am a csa survivor and a coppers daughter. My mum would have been very busy.

Exactly.

The people who insist they are women demand that we treat them as extra special, important women who matter more than regular, female women. Which is, not coincidentally, how they treat men.

Any of the police force who have rolled back policy from saying that an officer could not be obliged to or discriminated against for not (strip) seaching policy as of 1999.

To the current lot who say that an officer has a right to (strip) search a member of the other sex once she or he claims to be a member of the other sex.

Wasn’t going anywhere. Think my statement spoke for itself. If you took it as a put down that’s your interpretation.

You wouldn't be getting a training contract, there are none!

What?? How did you get all the way there with the men’s desires?
Why do you care what my beliefs and values are?
I think trans women are women yes.
I also think some men who are not trans women have pretended to be trans women. I don’t like those men!
I hold feminist beliefs
I respect that other people have different views to my own.
I mean there’s more to me than that but I’m not sure you’re genuinely interested 😊

OK...? What about the rest of us?

Why do you believe trans women are women?

I don't believe anybody truly believes this.

Literally no one says that. Except you.

Pretty much every extreme statement like that which I read on threads like these is not said by gender critical women, who actually tend to say things like "some TW are a threat" or "whether TW are nice or not is not the point, the point is female people have every right to be recognised as different to male" or at worst "trans people have distorted ideas about what personality is allowable for each sex and project that onto everyone else", but by people like you saying "Those witches say all trans women are [whatever awful thing is your current bee in the bonnet]! Burn them!"

A thread can have a hundred carefully worded posts, one person says "I'm sick of being told that AGP doesn't exist when there so so many examples of fetishistic men dressing as women" and BOOM - someone like you repeats that as being "what you all say" in every single reply for the rest of the thread and often in every thread for the next week as well.

It's like having someone take your legs off with a chainsaw while they complain, with genuine outrage, that you trod on their corns.

And to be clear, when I say "someone like you" that's not a hand wavy generality. There is a set of specific posters who display this pattern again and again. I'm not giving their usernames because that's unnecessarily provocative and stalkery, but I do want to be clear it is a specific pattern, and it is a regular group of people.

One might wonder whether the aim is no so much to stop these things that are (apparently) being said, as to get them said again and again and again in an attempt to change the tone into one you have more success demonising.

That seems a bit extreme, why can't men just obey the law?

No?

What are the "more in common" things that one group of males share with all females that is not shared by any male not in the group?

One or two examples would be nice.