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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

1000 replies

RetiringRita · 14/07/2025 13:47

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
BMW6 · 14/07/2025 17:04

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:02

Because they refer to two different things.

What, Men and Transwoman?

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:04

BMW6 · 14/07/2025 17:02

That's fine, as long as they keep out of women's spaces, good luck to them!

good luck to you in trying to force the disappearance of trans women from public life. It won’t happen.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2025 17:04

SerafinasGoose · 14/07/2025 16:48

Ad hominen attacks on individual posters are against talk guidelines. Is this an acknowledgement that you're unable to muster any serious argument that takes issue with her actual point?

I mean - someone has gone to the actual trouble of setting up a TAAT to continue that conversation.

Edited

Thank you.

SirRaymondClench · 14/07/2025 17:05

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:02

Because they refer to two different things.

In which way do they refer to different things?

I am a (cis) woman. Why can't I be a transwoman?

spannasaurus · 14/07/2025 17:06

I suspect that some the posters that are happy that female single sex spaces are now confirmed as protected in law have been also been happy to demonise the women fighting for those rights as bigoted TERFS in the past and have to now continue calling them hateful because theyre afraid that their lovely trans friends might now think they are also TERFS

DialSquare · 14/07/2025 17:06

Tandora · 14/07/2025 16:58

Cis women cannot be trans women no. The two are mutually exclusive terminologies.

Edited

So you agree that transwomen aren’t women then.

Helleofabore · 14/07/2025 17:06

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:04

good luck to you in trying to force the disappearance of trans women from public life. It won’t happen.

Why is excluding male people from female single sex provisions "force the disappearance of trans women from public life.'?

This is hyperbole and catastrophising.

Tangfastic71 · 14/07/2025 17:06

Helleofabore · 14/07/2025 16:54

If you cannot define what this difference is and you cannot provide a way for people to be able to identify who is and isn't in this "very different group of people", do you think that there is a significant issue?

What makes one group of male people not male like the rest of the population of male people?

If you cannot define a group, how do you protect the group?

Can you define a woman without resorting to saying it is someone who was born with a female sex markers? I was born a truly beautiful child but no amount of humour would make me think I still am. What is a woman?

spannasaurus · 14/07/2025 17:07

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:04

good luck to you in trying to force the disappearance of trans women from public life. It won’t happen.

No one trying to force them out of public life just out of female spaces

DialSquare · 14/07/2025 17:07

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:04

good luck to you in trying to force the disappearance of trans women from public life. It won’t happen.

None of us are trying to force the disappearance of men from public life.

spannasaurus · 14/07/2025 17:08

Tangfastic71 · 14/07/2025 17:06

Can you define a woman without resorting to saying it is someone who was born with a female sex markers? I was born a truly beautiful child but no amount of humour would make me think I still am. What is a woman?

A woman is an adult human female

TheKeatingFive · 14/07/2025 17:08

Tangfastic71 · 14/07/2025 17:06

Can you define a woman without resorting to saying it is someone who was born with a female sex markers? I was born a truly beautiful child but no amount of humour would make me think I still am. What is a woman?

A woman is a human whose body has developed along a path to make large gametes (eggs). Standard biological definition.

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:08

SirRaymondClench · 14/07/2025 17:05

In which way do they refer to different things?

I am a (cis) woman. Why can't I be a transwoman?

i don’t really believe you are sincere at this point, but one more before I start dinner-

A cis woman is a woman who was registered female at birth.

A trans woman is a woman who was registered male at birth.

You can’t be registered both male and female at birth- it’s one of the other. The are mutually exclusive terminologies.

BMW6 · 14/07/2025 17:08

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:04

good luck to you in trying to force the disappearance of trans women from public life. It won’t happen.

Where have I expressed the wish to force the disappearance of transwomen from public life?

Just one example of that desire please or apologise for lying through your teeth.

I'll wait.

commonsense61 · 14/07/2025 17:09

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

ContraryNoodle · 14/07/2025 17:09

Mustard4747 · 14/07/2025 16:37

Wow so posters can’t voice their concerns but trans haters can start multiple threads , monopolise and hijack whenever they feel like it.🤔

Well, I do not hate trans folk, I just do not give a single feck and am not in the slightest interested in a so-called minority group that has dominated and run rough-shot over the rights of the majority of women, as I focus on the rights and well being of women. Stating biological facts and wishing to protect the rights of women and girls is not hate. Luckily, even the courts have finally started recognising this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 14/07/2025 17:10

Tangfastic71 · 14/07/2025 16:45

Honestly, and with respect to your views, feelings and opinions….a trans woman is not in the same group as a man. You can certainly have an opinion that they are, and they are both men according to the law…but anyone with eyes can see they are a very different group of people.

Edited

No. You are welcome to have your own opinions, but I literally just see them as men. No more, no less. You don’t speak for me here.

OvaHere · 14/07/2025 17:10

Tangfastic71 · 14/07/2025 17:06

Can you define a woman without resorting to saying it is someone who was born with a female sex markers? I was born a truly beautiful child but no amount of humour would make me think I still am. What is a woman?

That is the definition of woman though - an adult human female. What else is there?

What do you think it should be? Something to do with dresses or lipstick or the colour pink. Calling yourself Sarah Lou?

AnSolas · 14/07/2025 17:11

RetiringRita · 14/07/2025 13:47

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

You are the one saying you are a prison visitor.

Advocating that its "OK" to have males in womens prisons

Ignoring the impact that has on the women and society as a whole.

That the males are not held in solitary confinement.

Ignoring the fact that the women are used to provide companionship to these males.

And that males have used this access provided by the State to sex offend against female inmates.

That is a 100% preventable crime only possible by the prison policy of mixed sex units.

So here is my opinion having the State take control of your person and removing you from society and confine you with strangers and has the ability to extend your detention if you dont comply with the prison policy means that the State has a direct obligation to protect your rights.

So either you think that the State fails to protect the rights of the women involved by allowing males in.

Or you believe that the State has lived up to its obligation.

And that the women exposed to the extra risk who refuse to pretend that a man is woman deserve punishment or sacking.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5372596-aibu-to-think-that-mners-are-excessively-hateful-towards-trans-people?page=36&reply=145675145

Elephantiner · Today 03:06
79% of women in prison have suffered sexual abuse and/or domestic violence. In these circumstances do ‘trans allies’ really think that the rights of transwomen to be housed in female prisons over ruled women’s rights to be housed in a place where they can feel safe from men? Because that’s a pretty vile way to treat a fellow human.

RetiringRita · Today 06:02
As an ex prison visitor I can tell you TW are housed in single cells (England )

TheKeatingFive · Today 06:49
And presumably still sharing communal areas and things like showering facilities.
In Limerick prison, female prisoners reported hearing 'Barbie Khardashian' roar sexual abuse at them from his cell. So even that doesn't spare the women prisoners.
Then there are the female guards and other staff who have to look after them. Khadashian threatened to rape and kill his prison officer (as well as another inmate).

RetiringRita · Today 07:15
Single sex cells have their own bathrooms.

Ereshkigalangcleg · Today 08:21
If you’re using “bathroom” as a twee word for toilet then maybe, if you’re using it for shower, you’re wrong. There have been recent cases in several countries including the UK where women had to shower together with men.

Can you please to quote where you said that males should not be housed in womens prisons??

And what were the questions Wordsmithery asked on the thread you failed to quote?

I [Wordsmithery] emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc.

It never is about the important issues is it.

"Awkward" it the word which springs to mind when defending the Idea that a girl or a woman can have no right to say no.

No men no boys of any type in what should be single sex spaces or activities.

No to being told he is more important than you

No to being told comply to the wants of this boy or man that he needs what you need more so maybe next time.

Awkard to justify why some males should be placed in prisons designed to house women.

It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa.

Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different?

Funny how the men say they need access to female spaces because they are afraid of mens spaces.

I [Wordsmithery] accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights:

Wordsmithery could not even recognise that women and men have differrent rights due to the State recognising that humans come in 1 of 2 sex. And that the UK courts recognise that women is a word used to group female persons.

So we [said Wordsmithery] should ignore
• toilets and
• changing rooms,
• sporting events,
• prison accommodation,
• to name but a few.

And funny how some words are important
• woman not a Body Part
• woman not a Bleeder
• woman not a Breeder or Birther

Just small stuff which is about recognising rights.

Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone.

Genuine is such a nice word.

So we [said Wordsmithery] should ignore
• toilets and
• changing rooms,
• sporting events,
• prison accommodation,
• to name but a few.

And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.

And the same old trope that society should pretend that "trans" is some magical thing which makes a man something different.

However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist.

Funny how Wordsmithery fails to provide the vitriol. No signs calling for death by hanging or burning

Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames?

Annnnd the violent imagery of war.

Funny how the women who speak out against the are showing a "terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist."

How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)?

So we [said Wordsmithery] should ignore
• toilets and
• changing rooms,
• sporting events,
• prison accommodation,
• to name but a few.

What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?

Who would be supprised to discover their opinions will be as diverse as the rest of the posters on MN?

Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum.

And here it is again war and need to pick the right side

And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.

Bad bad women who say no and explain why no means no.

No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

Bad bad bad bad women who say no and explain why no means no.

Page 36 | AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people? | Mumsnet

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accomm...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5372596-aibu-to-think-that-mners-are-excessively-hateful-towards-trans-people?page=36&reply=145675145

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:11

DialSquare · 14/07/2025 17:07

None of us are trying to force the disappearance of men from public life.

You are though. Even if that’s not what you intend or what you think you are doing. If you insist that a trans person must be treated according to their birth sex in all aspects of life where men and women are treated differently , you are completely refusing/ denying / disappearing the thing that makes trans people trans from public life.

itgetsthehoseagain · 14/07/2025 17:11

Tandora · 14/07/2025 16:52

Nope.

Just transwomen.

They should be allowed in women’s spaces because they are trans women.

Edited

But they are not women?

And my young daughter would like to not be next to a man in her local shopping centre toilets.

The trans folk need to argue for their own spaces rather than hijack women's. We've only just won the rights to vote and own land ffs - and here are men again looking to take something away from us. That's our female reality. And if a trans person identifying as a woman really was a woman, they they'd know why we were so angry about it.

TheKeatingFive · 14/07/2025 17:11

Can I just ask the trans activists on this thread, by what justification would this particular group of men get access to women's spaces? What's the rationale?

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:11

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:11

You are though. Even if that’s not what you intend or what you think you are doing. If you insist that a trans person must be treated according to their birth sex in all aspects of life where men and women are treated differently , you are completely refusing/ denying / disappearing the thing that makes trans people trans from public life.

@BMW6

Shedmistress · 14/07/2025 17:12

Tandora · 14/07/2025 17:11

You are though. Even if that’s not what you intend or what you think you are doing. If you insist that a trans person must be treated according to their birth sex in all aspects of life where men and women are treated differently , you are completely refusing/ denying / disappearing the thing that makes trans people trans from public life.

At what point does their birth sex flip to the opposite birth sex in your experience?

Helleofabore · 14/07/2025 17:12

Tangfastic71 · 14/07/2025 17:06

Can you define a woman without resorting to saying it is someone who was born with a female sex markers? I was born a truly beautiful child but no amount of humour would make me think I still am. What is a woman?

But the definition of being a female person is only that they are born with a body that has been formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether that body has ever, will ever or is producing those gametes.

What other established and proven scientific definition of being a female person is needed? Why have you tried to dishonestly redefine what being a female person is.

A 'woman' is a term for the mature human female person.

"I was born a truly beautiful child but no amount of humour would make me think I still am."

I am sorry, but what do you mean here? This seems to be really unclear.

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