Trans hate (I don't) and the same old, same old

[RetiringRita]

Well I've been on a few threads this weekend and the one that's been hijacked yet again was the question of trans hate on mumsnet.
The OP asked for opinions on whether that was a fair statement yet within minutes the question was ignored and the same FWR posters were out in force. They didn't want to answer the question so targeted their posts to state their agenda.

Sex as defined by The Surpreme Court ruling
TW perverts in women's prisons
TW perverts in female loos
Men in dresses
FTM having ASD or mental illness.

It appears those of us who sit on the fence are not entitled to be there. Those who cannot be bullied get shouted down.

I have been called the following :

Hand Maiden
Trans Ally
Not part of the sisterhood
Delusional
Captured
Shameful
Mentally ill
A liar (frequently)
A man

None apply to me.

Am I being unreasonable to ask for some understanding and compassion for trans people who don't fit the stereotypes listed?

Are you suggesting that any condition for which we haven’t yet identified precise “biological markers” for are therefore philosophical beliefs?

Autism? ADHD? Depression? Sexuality? To name just very few.

How is it disingenuous? Genuinely how? Men are all still men regardless of their self perceived identities.

How are they different?

Out of a thousand posts I think there were less than 10...........and some of those were repeats.

Perhaps you'd like to have a thorough look.

And none on this thread.

Sorry but they really are.

This will continue to be the case no matter how much you dislike the idea.

How is the presence of a y chromosome not meaning they are a man? After all, I can't be a transwoman, as I don't have the required male chromosomes to be one.

There are a few differences now with the clarification of the law.

Firstly, feminists can work to ensure that single sex spaces are now single sex spaces. Feminists and women's rights campaigners can work to change policies that were created to reflect the misinterpreted laws that were advised in by groups such as Stonewall.

Secondly, male people with transgender identities should be in no doubt that when a provision is described, such as signed, as being for female people, that they should not access that provision. Those who do so, do so knowing that they should not be accessing that provision.

These are facts not my feelings or opinions.

Transwomen are male. Adult males are men.
Calling them transwomen does not change either of these 2 facts.

If transwomen are not men what are they?

My eyes aren't good enough to see their chromosomes, perhaps you could explain what exactly my eyes should be looking for to identify transwomen from other men.

So c9me on explain these complicated facts that make transwomen not male.

@RetiringRita

i’m a bit confused. You seem to think you are in favour of single sex spaces, prisons and sport. What are you on the fence about?

Most people on here would be kind to a trans person and would be likely to try to use respectful terms to describe them in real life. What makes people angry is compelled speech and thought - if you’re not allowed to say “female” “biological sex” or “woman” to make a distinction where it matters, then many women understandably get quite cross. Is it policed speech that you are in favour of? I’m struggling to understand what the issue is, or is this a thread about a thread?

Ad hominen attacks on individual posters are against talk guidelines. Is this an acknowledgement that you're unable to muster any serious argument that takes issue with her actual point?

I mean - someone has gone to the actual trouble of setting up a TAAT to continue that conversation.

If transwomen are not men what are they?

they are trans women.

I was on the same thread and didn’t want to even bother replying to people who quoted me and referenced the whole current toilet thing. It disgusts me how vile people (transphobic people) can be.

Do you believe a transwomen who doesn't take hormones and still has their penis is not a man?

So, you are saying that there are neurological markers that all people with transgender identities share and can be used to diagnose being transgender?

Great. Please link us up with that evidence!

Do you think that there is no material reality reflected in a sexual orientation? Or when you say sexuality, are you talking about paraphilias? What do you mean?

So men who don't want to be called men Gotcha.
So why are these males allowed access to female spaces but other males aren't?

It's not a generalisation when it's fundamental to the categorisation.

A trans person who expects to be treated as the opposite sex is by definition placing their personal understanding of their gender, something no one else can ever experience, as more significant not just to them but to the world in general than the fact of their sex which is how everyone else experiences them.

Getting miffed about that "generalisation" is like getting miffed about the generalisation that most Christians believe in Christ or most vegetarian's don't eat meat!

You clearly have no understanding as to why single sex spaces are important for the vast majority of females in order to ensure safety, privacy and dignity. In order for those spaces to be single sex, no men should be allowed to enter. Making a mockery of women who think this is important is the worst kind of misogyny.

Okay I'll rise. The gloating over the recent court ruling, that sex is biological. I do agree but can still show compassion for trans people upset by the ruling. I've seen parents of trans children told as if it is a fact not opinion that their child is mentally unwell. Also seen a discussion about if a trans actor can 'pass'. People rightly get jumped on when they comment on someone's appearance on other threads.

Nope.

Just transwomen.

They should be allowed in women’s spaces because they are trans women.

Posts were deleted and those were just the ones people noticed in passing and could be bothered to flag up. News flash -unlike the anti trans obsessive take over mob most of us don’t sit on threads 24/7 which is what’s needed to report every offensive post. But however many there were is too many, there were some horrible posts on there.

Only men can be transwomen. So what changes to a man to make him a 'trans' woman?

So adult males who are men as men are adult males who want to be called transwomen not men.....as I said.

And this self declaration provides access to female/womens spaces why exactly?

Trying to keep a straight face here but could you for instance see that lesbians are not in the same group as straight women? I think it’s quite fair to say that we could stop wasting each others time with the back and forth. I feel threatened by men who identify as men….i don’t feel threatened by men who identify as women. In more than 5 decades of lived experience my experience with both groups has led to one being wholly and entirely positive and the other being mired with violence, sexual assault and misogyny. You clearly have a different lived experience and I respect that wholeheartedly.