To think most men would cheat if they knew they’d never be caught?

[OneMauveMentor]

It’s not about love - it’s about opportunity, ego, and lack of consequences. “Good men” are often just men who haven’t had the chance (yet). Loyalty when untested isn’t real loyalty.

I keep seeing things on here and think how f'ing stupid I was. Since she confessed (just over 2 months ago now), things keep cropping up that I look back on and think what an idiot I was. Since I found how risky she had been we've both been for STD testing and so far all clear (although we have to do it again after 3 months). But I look back and shudder when I think what we might both have been exposed to. She never used protection, and among others, within a few weeks of each other she had sex with a stranger in a strip club, and another in car park with a bloke she picked up (or he picked her up), while walking home from a night out - not the sort of people for whom this was likely to be their first time. I look back as well to earlier occasions a few years ago when she must have been going for testing - I can still picture the antibiotics and her telling me we couldn't have sex when she was on them because they affected the contraceptive pill. She'd say it was a UTI, and that she was prone to them - what an idiot I was!!!

You weren't an idiot. You trusted her, because in order to have a relationship, you must be able to trust. She took advantage of your trust because she is scum. Don't blame yourself.
If you are a man, unfortunately there is no male test for HPV, so be sure to get regular cancer screenings. That's the legacy of being with a cheater- you're under the gun for cancer the rest of your life.
I read a statistic once that over 60% of them use no protection. Absolutely despicable. Nobody can ever tell me that's not abuse.

It's interesting that we talk about trust yet so many on this thread believe men would cheat if they could get away with it. If these women are dating men I cant get my head around where the trust is.

Nobody should trust everyone, men or women. You can have a general distrust but still believe there are some trustworthy people left in the world. Obviously, if you decide to date somebody it's going to be because you believe that person is trustworthy. You may find out later you were wrong, but you have to trust in order to achieve emotional intimacy. Once betrayed, trust in that person rarely returns and your sense of safety is shattered. It doesn't mean you can never trust again, but it certainly makes it harder.

I think I was referring more to the posters who seem pretty certain its most men that would do it. That's not leaving many needles to find in the haystack so the odds would be against you. So you are entering a relationship pretty certain he doesnt want to be faithful to you and will cheat once opportunity arises.

It does depend on the person, men as a rule have more form for cheating than women , all you have to do is read the posts on Mumsnet regarding cheating, almost always men cheating on their partners 🤷🏻‍♀️..
I’m single & that’s when you really see the amount of cheating that goes on , as in being propositioned by married guys that wouldnt dream of doing it when they see you have a partner ..
I also find attractive / accomplished men are more game than those that aren’t , bigger egos …….

I have found that there are few men worth being in a LTR with anyway. It's not just cheating, it's being lazy around the house, uncommunicative/avoidant, emotionally constipated, sexually entitled, controlling and/or abusive.
Sad to say I think the majority of men are unsuitable as partners. There are some gems out there, but I know I'm highly unlikely to find one. So I don't date and I'm good with it. I feel bad for anyone who is trying to find a good guy and failing, but even worse for those who settle for an unsuitable man.

I have to agree , it is very hard to find a decent guy , geuine & attractive that you click with ..
Of course there are great men out there , like I say very hard to meet especially if you’re older & single ..
I have to say , I will never settle either , it has to be all right or I’d prefer to remain single …
It’s all on line now aswel , Fucking nightmare !
Back to Cheating, amount of married guys on dating Apps , it’s mental ! And always in around 40 to 50 age bracket 🤷🏻‍♀️

This is where I'm struggling. Honestly, I'm sure I've got my flaws. But the blokes my OH was shagging were rum to say the least and not LTR material. The first one she confessed to was a very junior colleague of hers who was away with the fairies on dope, living in bedsit, in a mountain of debt. The second was, or at least thought he was, a gangsta, running the doors on the club scene (or so he reckoned), lied about owning a bar, she shagged him in strip club where is GF was working. The third she picked up walking home from a night out and did it with him in a car park. I found him on FB and it turns out his GF is (and was at the time with my OH), pregnant. He's 11 years younger than my OH, 15 years younger than me. There are at least two others that have come to light since that she won't even talk about, and I'm pretty sure there must be more given the patterns that are emerging - the opportunities arising from working away, work and social events etc.

I know I must have my flaws, but I know I pull more than my weight domestically and especially with the kids. She goes away to work often, and then I'm doing 100%. And TBF, she has never complained about me pulling my weight domestically. I frequently, almost daily bring her breakfast in bed or whatever she asks for, buy her flowers, surprise her with gifts and try and keep some romance going. Since our first DC came along I have literally got up every single morning with them from day one, done breakfast, packed them off to school to let her sleep. Not that I'm saying she doesn't do her fair share, she does, she really is a fantastic Mum.

Lazy around the house - absolutely not, I know she doesn't think that about me.

Uncommunicative/avoidant - well she literally refuses to discuss the infidelity since the initial confession 2 months ago.

Emotionally constipated - not sure what that means.

Sexually entitled - no chance. I've been through long spells of no sex at all with her - obviously now I know why, I thought I was being sensitive to her needs after some emotional issues we went through (losing a baby among them, but even then it now turns out she was doing it elsewhere). And even when we got back to it, it was always a case of me satisfying her and seldom the other way around.

Controlling and/or abusive - in what way? She goes where she likes, when she likes (including hols with her single mates), and I never questioned her implausible excuses for not coming home or coming home in the early hours, trusted her, believed her 100% until it came out recently. She keeps her own salary to herself, 100%. Never raised a finger to her but yes when all this came out I had some angry/emotional outbursts but nothing more than a raised voice through gritted teeth.

I totally understand you not dating, if/when this relationship comes to an end, there's no way I'm getting into another (not that anyone would have me now anyway, out of shape, grey 50 something). Wouldn't risk this ever happening again, nor would I wish it upon anyone.

Sad to say I think the majority of men are unsuitable as partners. There are some gems out there, but I know I'm highly unlikely to find one. So I don't date and I'm good with it. I feel bad for anyone who is trying to find a good guy and failing, but even worse for those who settle for an unsuitable man.

It's often a two way thing IME.

A lot of men seem to reach a certain stage in their life and start dreaming of freedom again - sometimes called a mid life crisis. They're settled in their job, kids have moved out or are studying, and many have partners/wives who are no longer particularly interested in sex (which seems more common in women) and who have often aged less favourably than the men as men often seem to age better.

So they end up with somebody they don't find as attractive as they used to, who doesn't want to shag them anyway, and they nope out. So they start acting like arses, end up splitting up with partner, and get labelled as 'unsuitable for relationships'. But really that's what I think many are aiming for. They just want to chase younger women and be free from commitment as we often see on here.

I think the 'acting like an arse'/checking out bit can sometimes be their way of ending the relationship without explicitly asking for a divorce. A bit like that SIL on the other thread who apparently didn't want kids so 'let it slip' to her husband's sister that she was using contraception rather than telling her husband directly.

And before people inevitably get offended by the statement that men age better, I'm talking in terms of societal beauty standards (which are absolutely a social construct but still nonetheless pervasive).

One of the common male beauty standards is to be muscular/toned and this is much more easy to maintain into middle age than feminine beauty standards, especially with hormone replacement/TRT. A man can be hard bodied well into his later years with a good gym regimen but sadly there's not a whole lot we can do to combat gravity and prevent bits starting to go droopy - being too muscular isn't generally seen as attractive in women. I feel that's one reason why men seem more able to get younger partners than women.

So basically you’re saying that most men are immoral. Wow.

I didn't use the word 'most'. I'm talking about a particular type of man. Most aren't chasing younger women, but they defo seem more prone to it than we are. I think it's because they often don't prioritise stability as much as we do and it's rare for them to be financially dependent on us.

Like, a man being a 'silver fox' is often seen as attractive whilst a lot of women go to great lengths to hide the signs of aging.

The OP says “most men”.

I mean, this does make sense, but according to my observations there are definitely quite a lot of attractive women out there who partner up with very unattractive men, probably because women are generally less visual than men when it comes to attraction.

I’ve also known a few cases of a man cheating on his partner with a woman less attractive than his partner is. So a lot of the time, looks aren’t the primary driver of attraction. I think some of it is just about the thrill of the forbidden and the opportunity, and sometimes how happy someone is in their relationship. I’ve no doubt some would definitely cheat if they were propositioned by a stunner as you say, though!

I'm not the OP.

Another thing I notice is that a lot of women say things like "I want a man, not a boy", whilst men don't really tend to express similar sentiments. I wonder if this is down to society's tendency to judge women on their looks and men on their status. This is never more apparent to me than in mainstream films where the vast majority of lead actresses are conventionally attractive unless they're playing a very specific role. A lot of male actors are too, but it seems much more acceptable for them to be the 'Wolf of Wall Street' type and command respect by making loads of dough, driving flash cars, taking lots of cocaine, etc.

Certainly, women seem to prioritise status in a partner more than men do, whilst many more patriarchal men don't seem to want an assertive or dominant partner in many cases. I wonder if it's because the man already sees himself as fulfilling that role, so having a successful partner wouldn't necessarily elevate his social standing so much as challenge it/undermine his dominance (unlike having a model on his arm which raises his perceived status with other men).

You only have to look at male celebrities to see the types of women they go for when there are limited barriers to choice. You'll often see aging musicians pushing 60yo with a beautiful 30yo on their arm (Anthony Kiedis of the RHCP is an example that springs to mind).

They could easily go for a 45yo woman who would still look absolutely stunning with the luxury of serious £££ to spend on beauty treatments and nice clothing etc. Like the trophy wives you see driving around in brand new Range Rovers, always looking like they've just come from a makeover. Having the freedom to go to the spar/gym every day without worrying about a 9-5 and bills etc. However, the men still go for the women young enough to be their daughters.

You don't tend to see the reverse so much. The only example I can think of is Vivienne Westwood and her toyboy and I'm pretty sure they're actually infatuated with each other, though can't remember where I read that so may be wrong.

And of course there seem to be a fair few extremely wealthy business moguls with fairly typical relationships. But outside of the financial aspirations it's the musicians, racing car drivers, footballers that men seem more likely to idolise. The types of guys that often have a girlfriend 30 years their junior on their arm.

@MelBrookesMyHero reading your latest post it reads as if the roles were reversed in your relationship. If you didnt know who the female was you would think the female was you. In terms of old fashioned stereotypical roles anyway. She seemed to have the power in the relationship and ended up taking you for granted.

How did you manage to find the random stranger she had sex with on Facebook though? The one she picked up after a night out.

"How did you manage to find the random stranger she had sex with on Facebook though? The one she picked up after a night out."

This was the most recent one, which led to her confession. She said that either before or after (she can't remember), he asked for her number, she declined but she did tell him her name and where she worked. He looked her up and started to pursue her by email initially and at some point either he found her on FB (or the other way round, I don't know what to believe in this respect). I don't/never before, really done FB or social media, but I created an a/c to look him up (and others).

It amazes me how stupid people can be on FB as well, especially cheats. Not a single pic of me on my OH's FB page. And this guy she cheated with literally got his life story on there, including enough for me to establish his address.

So did she tell you his name? I'm still not understanding how you found him.

Yes, she told me his name and about him emailing her at work, from which I looked him up.

I'm trying to figure out why she told you his name. Not important i guess but the picture I'm getting is she cheated on you a lot, like you say probably more than she has told you about. So if he was a random shag why tell you his full name. Wonder what reason.

I'm guessing because he was pursuing her, and she was probably worried OH would find out?