AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

If you define "hateful" as not believing it's not possible to change sex, then I'm "hateful" too...

I am GC. In my opinion a high level of vitriol comes from the so called trans community.

One example: a gay male relation is a member of a LGBT choir which is a registered charity. Just after the Supreme Court ruling I looked at their Instagram page. It was full of barely digitised vitriol. For example pictures of dogs with slogans like ‘I bite terfs’ and pictures of weapons.

I go to work. I go to the toilet. There is a man in a dress in the ladies loo prancing around in front of a mirror, deliberately trying to provoke. BTW we have male/female and mixed toilets. I complain to the building manager. I am told they will do nothing and I am the problem.

I get on the tube. I am wearing a top designed by Birdie Rose it says ‘I won’t be compelled to lie’ with a picture of a woman - nothing anti trans. A man in a short skirt with fishnets stands nearby. He then clocks me. Sits opposite and opens his legs - he is not wearing anything underneath. I text BTP but they don’t intercept in time, although I make a statement.

It’s not so called anti trans woman. It’s bloody men and their trans maids who behaving in an aggressive and threatening manner.

Again, examples of the 'disgust and hate'?

You assume that these posters don't have direct experience of trans identifying family members and friends. If you actually read any of these threads, you'd see that's not the case. There is very varied and nuanced experience on here. Including detransition.

Gawd, you are depressingly correct

You'd bet WRONG, @HerNeighbourTotoro . A sizeable majority of 'terfs' are 'terfs' because we have met with and worked with transwomen. No quicker way to become a 'terf' (or rather merf - male exclusionary) than meet a transwoman. Guaranteed.

And we don't need to meet males to know that males don't belong in female spaces.

If someone thinks they have a gendered soul we should respect their right to that opinion. But we don't have to respect the opinion itself.

Post and run heh? Another journalist too lazy to do proper research

Because the same old anti trans posters pile on to bully on anything even remotely related to trans. Very few balanced posters bother to even click now.

It’s vile and so tedious.

👏 👏

'However, reading some of the many online hate sites on women and gender critical people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of women and gender critical people to even exist.'

Sorry, OP, your 2nd paragraph needed a little tweaking to reflect what's actually happening in the real world. Trans people, especially trans women, claim they are the most oppressed people on the planet. But not so oppressed when they are comfortable making threats of rape, death, disfigurement to anyone who disagrees with them. They are not oppressed when so many companies and institutions were completely captured by the trans lobby (although many of these companies and institutions, now they've had the time and inclination to properly look at the individuals driving the agenda are starting to open their eyes and roll back).

Many TRAs are abusive, misogynistic bullies, who ride rough shod over women at every opportunity. Oppressed my arse.

OP you’re completely correct, but there’s no point even raising the topic on this forum sadly. MNers are convinced know the statistic show that the biggest threat to their existence is are trans women men however they identify.

If what you said were true, this forum would have been “anti trans” years before the TRA came after women’s rights. Comments have been louder because TRA came after women and children. If it had stayed as adults expressing themselves then things would not be where they are.

Women defending their rights that previous generations won for them isn’t hateful. Threatening women who speak up with rape and physical harm is hateful but we live in a two tier system where the police wilfully pretend that the threats to women don’t matter. If you’re a woman, that’s what you should be worried about.

Just read this thread then! The existence of trans people has been referred to as “a predatory movement!”

Where’s the bullying? What’s vile and tedious? Disagreeing that you can change sex? Does anyone ever back up these statements?

I think you have a lot of catching up to do OP.

Its all very well wading in and asking why people cant just get along, if you havent been paying attention till now.

OK, leaving aside the issues of women-only spaces and other women-only provision...

I don't hate trans people, but I do hate being expected to modify my natural language and use "she" for a male (or "he" for a female, but at present that doesn't occur in my life).

I also reject the idea that a male can claim to be a woman. In doing so, he is redefining me, because what am I then? I have nothing in common with him that I don't share with other males.

Other beliefs from other people do not affect me in this way. If someone, a friend even, believes in a flat-earth, that has no effect on my daily life or my actions or my philosophy. We can just not discuss it. But there is no way to avoid trans person in my life having a direct effect on me, unless I never talk about them - difficult when it is someone in a friendship or family group.

And the flat-earther does not seek to redefine who I am.

There is no hatred against 'trans people'. It's against MALES entering female spaces.

And you're gaslighting and DARVOing because feminists wanting to protect our hard won single sex spaces is not 'hate' against males - however they identify. We are not the the ones who threaten rape against women, who piss all over feminist statues etc.

There is zero 'hate' on here towards 'trans' people. Yet trans activists are filled with violence and hate towards females, so much so they bring baseball bats, bags of knives, and in some cases a molotov cocktail to WOMEN MEETING TO DISCUSS OUR RIGHTS. So please don't lie. The hate and violence is 100% on one side, the trans side. And the receipts PROVE IT.

I agree with you and I can't bear to read the comments, as I think they will all be negative, angry and repetitive. It's an issue that isn't going away, so we need to find some middle ground.

Do I agree with transitioning, no. I think men are men and women are women. However I do accept that a lot of people disagree and that is their perogative.

Nothing more to say, so I'll toddle off now.

I think it speaks volumes that these threads always go the same way- opening post, intelligent counter arguments, zero response or flounce from the OP.

I couldn’t give a fig if someone identifies as trans, just as I don’t mind if someone is vegan or they’re into football. Has no impact on me.

My problem arises when trans people want to be included in the sex class of their choice. That is not acceptable (nor is it legal). There is no system in which nice ‘Jenny’ from the pub that doesn’t harm anyone can be allowed access to SSS but men are not housed in female prisons. There can’t be a differentiation between ‘real’ trans people and those merely saying they’re trans to gain access to SSS.

Not giving men access to SSS is not denying trans people their rights. Trans people have the same rights as the rest of us.

Trans rights activism is a predatory movement- not the existence of trans adults.

I think there’s a spectrum. It’s a shame so much of gender identification (not born sex) is so binary and seems to be led by stereotypes.

people who you agree with aren’t “balanced” just because you agree with them 🤷‍♀️

But no worse then the nasty misogynistic things said on Reddit about women that have said no to men in single-sex female spaces, or people that have accidentally mis-gendered someone, or detransitioners.

I’m reading it. Still waiting.

Some trans women are. I’d argue any man who crosses the social boundary that’s been in place for forever to go into spaces not for him is not a nice man. He’s a boundary pushing man. Predatory? Maybe. One to celebrate and stand up for? Absolutely not.