AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

You are thanking someone for being unable to put an argument together but then this is what TRAs are famous for on a site where people are actually allowed to debate a subject.

Let's help these people be who they are then, so they accept their sex, and follow the Supreme Court ruling. After all it's just a few with dysphoria needing help.

@Wordsmithery I asked you this question 12 hours and 32 pages of posts ago now. Would you care to answer?

It’s just simply to discover what exactly it is that you’ve seen that has prompted this thread. You’ve made a lot of assertions, but they don’t chime with my experience of MN, so I and others on the thread are curious to discover what evidence you have for the assertions you’ve made. If, as you say, MN is a hotbed of vitriol aimed at trans people it will be very quick and easy to find. Could you help us understand your point?

it looks like most people who have voted think you are BU @Wordsmithery- maybe you can get a hint from that?

Just a thought:
if we had sufficient psychologists and other mental health professionals do posters think trans identifying people would be helped to challenge the ideology? To change their minds about cross sex treatment? Because we are not insisting BACP qualified clinicians work in the NHS.
Often they enter commercial business in HR or marketing. We have a crisis in training places for doctors and that includes mental health physicians. Lots of people with body dysphoria wait years for treatment why is that so down the list?

So let me get this right. Women need to be kinder to transpeople. Does this include letting them use spaces of the opposite sex or is it enough just to treat them socially as the sex they wish to be seen as? Where is the kindness to women? What do women get from allowing males into their spaces?

Worse for which women?

If you are one of the few women who needs an abortion, then I can see how it might be worse to be u able to access legal abortion.

However, being unable to access single sex spaces, treatments, sports or prisons negatively affects ALL women (even the ones who haven’t realised yet or think they are somehow special and better and ‘more inclusive’ than the rest of us).

American women had a terrible choice and it’s a testament to how anti-women the Democrats became that Trump won. He is awful but they somehow managed to be worse.

Indeed. The vast majority of transwomen wouldn’t use a women’s loo. They respect women’s right to privacy and safety. They’ll use the disabled. It’s the trans women who want to barge into women’s spaces that set women up against trans women. If only they could respect women’s rights to single sex spaces / sports / awards etc then everyone would get along well. But they can’t as they need ‘validation ’

I don't know why you quoted my post because your answer bears no relationship to anything that I wrote,
.

That’s quite a big claim.

Did this ‘number of posts’ actually say “all transmen are mentally ill”?

Or was there discussion around the Tavistock findings that the majority of young girls identifying as male have some kind of trauma (often sexual abuse), autism or internalised homophobia which have led to mental health issues which are generally ignored and untreated the minute a ‘trans’ declaration is made?

As for the ‘poor parenting’, when parents go into daytime tv to proudly show off their ‘Youngest trans child in the U.K.’ because their little girl fancied wearing comfortable clothes and being allowed to climb trees like her twin brother so it’s been decided she is really a boy - then yes, we will berate them for parenting so poor it amounts to child abuse. What sane person wouldn’t?

I feel that you’re paraphrasing a bit there.
What I have seen in various comments is that it’s very common for FTM to have other MH issues along with high numbers being on the autistic spectrum. It’s very common for teenage girls to struggle with both the physical changes
to their bodies and the sexualisation of them by males, so to want to cast off that pressure to be feminine and sexy is natural.
I remember when I was a “tomboy” and being horrified at the idea of wearing a bra - crying for days when my dm insisted on taking me to buy some. I’d take them off in the toilets at school and hide them in my bag. I can guarantee if transgender ideology had been as prevalent as it is now, and I’d been told I could become a boy, I’d have totally fallen for it.
If I’d had access to breast binders, I’d have absolutely used them and potentially damaged my breast tissue which could’ve caused issues with breastfeeding my children.
This is partly why I’m so opposed to the ideology, knowing I could’ve gone down that path is frightening. I have a friend who’s dd has been using binders since she was a young teen - she had no idea at that point (or even now at 18) whether she might want to have children in the future, and yes, I think it’s poor parenting to allow her to use them.

What about some kindness for women?

Funnily enough, that never seems to figure in the thoughts of the #bekind brigade.

RetiringRita, the young transmen I know are all ASD, and have eating disorders and/or self harming issues. There are very obvious mental health concerns.

Yes that would certainly lead to much better health outcomes, however what you describe now counts as 'conversion therapy' and anyone advocating for this approach can look forward to a whole heap of abuse and a radically shortened career.

Good point. Also the government are being pushed hard to outlaw this sort of therapy. They keep announcing it and some MPs are very committed to the idea.

No argument from me or most of the GC women who post on MN ….we agree on this. But the problem is that this issue we agree on is enough for you and me to be labelled as a transphobic bigot.

This isn’t Reddit. Saying “no” to men in women’s spaces isn’t hate.

Nothing to do with most MN members swerving any threads about trans because they're bored with the onslaught.

Continually repeating words doesn’t make them true.

What is hateful about women wanting to retain our rights to single sex spaces and services?

some of the kindest loveliest, most supportive, funny and beautiful people that I know are men. I still don’t want them in women’s single sex spaces.

prove it. Stop reporting the posts and then everyone can see exactly what is being said.

“SHOCKED” and not just “shocked”. Oh my …well that’s me convinced that we should just give up our rights and allow men to do whatever they want whenever they want

🙄

I'm shocked to have to say this. We really need the hate to go and a kinder world where all men show love and respect to women and stay out of their spaces.

Trans ally here. I believe trans women are women and are also at risk from men just like cis women are. I’ve never met a trans woman who has intimidated me or done me any harm.

i agree that the rhetoric on here is toxic and I’ve learned the hard way there is no point in trying to argue with it as there is a massive pile on and I don’t think forums like this are a good place for compassionate empathetic debate. It’s too easy for people to become inflamed in ways they wouldn’t in real life interactions. It does make me sad though.