AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

I'm not transpbobic. I do not care nor am I interested in what people wear, what they call themselves or how the present themselves. However. As a female, who had gone through puberty, fought for a career, birthed children and now entering menopause, I do not take kindly to a man declaring that they are a woman.
It ridicules what women go through.

Also
I do not want to take my young DC swimming and have to share a changing space with a biological man in a bikini with a beard. There's just no need for it other than attention seeking or other ulterior motives as far as I am concerned.
Trans women are not and will not be women.

Unless you have grown as a woman. Changed as a woman and fought as a woman. Get back in your corner.

It doesn't mean I dislike anyone who chooses to dress as a woman, it means I do not respect their motives. Nor do I want them in my spaces.

@MixedMetals So you are cheering on the people who told autistic kids and those who have been in care or sexually abused (they make up a disproportionate number of trans people) that their problems would be solved by transitioning. You are cheering on the abuse of young people because you think abortion rights are more important. Apparently you dont have the ability to care about both - but women do.

So where the f are the left wing parties that will just have normal policies and won't go on record that they can blatantly disregard the law like here in the UK with the SC judgement.

Oh my god - this.

And when the insane Left hands votes straight to Reform and then acts all surprised and affronted - I will not have the words to express my frustration.

I don't care what people do privately in their own lives, but if they try to force themselves into places where they don't belong (single-sex restrooms or competitions) or try to force the rest of the world to lie (saying TWAW, for example, or insisting on pronouns that are lies), they're no longer just living their own lives. It's not hateful to want that nonsense to stop.

Ultimately, I guess I just don't see the need to lie to make an adult feel better about the truth. Just be yourself (as long as it's not actively hurting someone else) and leave the rest of us alone. We're all born with a certain type of body. However we feel about the body we get, I think the best course of action is to make the most of it instead of wasting a lifetime trying to force everyone else to pretend it's the opposite of what it is.

I don't even give a crap about gender. Believe in it, don't believe it, think it's an inner essence, or s

Whoops

Or societal expectations. Knock yourself out.

Just don't use it as a Trojan Horse or Bait and Switch technique to try to gain access to sex specific spaces that don't belong to you.

Why would you need to sit on MN for that long? I thought the boards were full of hateful posts?

But that would mean pro abortion politicians are those who say a woman has no definition. How do you fight for woman’s rights if you can’t define what a woman is. So really women are screwed either way aren’t they? Either they are denied bodily autonomy or they are erased.

And this is hyperbolic bullshit. No one claims that all trans people are sex abusers. But it’s certainly true that some are. Just like some non trans people are. The majority of sexual assaults are committed by males. This is not the same as saying that most men commit sexual assaults.

Not wanting a self selecting group if males to access female only spaces and services is not transphobic.

What exactly makes MN a transphobic cesspool?

It's why so many of us are politically homeless. The left wing political parties we are naturally drawn to have shown themselves to be credulous, easily swayed by nonsense spouted by lobbying groups, happy to throw their credibility under the wheels to follow a fad and too scared of losing their jobs to stand up for what they believe in. To paraphrase Sal Grover, if you're happy to do that, I simply won't trust another word you say. I will never have any faith in you. I will never vote for you.

So many political parties in Scotland have had to issue a whip to their MSP's to force them to vote a certain way in debates and my admiration is for those, from any political party, who have defied the whip and voted according to what they believe is right. I may not agree with them on every factor. But I can at least credit them with that.

💯 perfectly said

The vast majority of people are law abiding. That doesn’t mean we dump all laws and safeguarding policies though.

I don't think so. Most of us are perfectly fine with people being trans and will use whatever names they want, as long as their identifying as trans does not compromise womens rights, safety and comfort.

It's fine to 'feel like a woman' and even to present like one but you can't force other people to participate in your delusions and laws will not and should not change in order to validate that delusion.

Well they do say that hence the deletions so it most definitely isn’t hyperbolic bullshit.

I am horrified by both. I don't think you can say that the women terrified or assaulted by "Barbie" are any better off than women who had to fly to England for an abortion or were forced to carry a baby with no hope of life.

Not what I or friends do so don’t relally need to engage or answer as it’s not my world you”re asking about.
But I will say that arsehole behaviour of others is not me or my responsibility other than I’ll fucking object to it if I come across it personally. I (obviously) don’t agree with it.
i also don’t agree with racists, nazis, rightwingers, MAGAs and any other idiots that I also have nothing in common with.

whataboutism could also be taking my kid’s 17 year old trans friend w us to a concert to have a grown ass adult spit at her and hiss “disgusting” as we passed. Do YOU agree with that?!

I’m not from the UK or Europe or anywhere remotely similar, and I was SHOCKED at the transphobia here. It’s put me off the UK, but now I see where JK Rowling gets it from.

Excellent. You stay where you are then! We are quite happy here.

I’ll support my friends no matter who the fuck they legally love. And as stated, my friends are fabulous, kind, inclusive, funny and loving. That’s why we’re friends. None of them are hateful towards women, men, “terfs”, cis, noncis whatevs. If they were, we’d not be friends.

When everything was going the way of the trans allies they didn't want to debate, they just wanted to vilify any woman who wouldn't say TWAW. Now things aren't so good suddenly there's a difference, it's us being manipulated by the far right, or it's we should worry about other women's issues instead,or most women support us really or very occasionally someone actually does want to say it's all gone a bit wrong, couldn't we start again. It's all just another way of saying women don't know their own minds.
It's all a bit too little, too late - we wanted to meet half way, that's wasn't good enough, everything didn't just have to be trans available, the real, biological women were supposed to say Oh no, you first.

I can say without any hesitation that I do not agree with a teenager attending a concert being spat at by an adult and called disgusting. Without hesitation.

I do wonder why trans allies are so hesitant to denounce women receiving death and rape threats in a similar manner though?

Quite.

Also, stories of the women suffering because of men in their spaces are simply not being reported, apart from the odd coverage Paddy O'Gorman is able to get out.

It'll be exactly like the Church scandals, it'll all come out years after the fact. Say what you like about Ireland, the PTB will embrace any kind of misogyny that's going.

Because I was talking about my friends!! Not every asshole with vile opinions,

and I did say very clearly what I thought about vile statements. “But I will say that arsehole behaviour of others is not me or my responsibility other than I’ll fucking object to it if I come across it personally. I (obviously) don’t agree with it.
i also don’t agree with racists, nazis, rightwingers, MAGAs and any other idiots that I also have nothing in common with.”

I could by the same token wonder why the “trans sceptics” o whatever the term is are so opposed to reading replies they don’t like & just go full dog whistle at it? But that’s a terrible generalisation and doesn’t’get us anywhere.