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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

1000 replies

Wordsmithery · 13/07/2025 08:50

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2025 16:18

Shedmistress · 13/07/2025 16:18

Women: We don't want men in our single sex spaces
TRAs: Die in a grease fire bigot bitch. TERF. Decapitate TERFs. Kill the TERFs. If you see a TERF punch them in the fucking face.
Women: Yeah, that's why.
'Allies': Gosh those women are so hateful to such a vulnerable minority.

🎯

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2025 16:21

BundleBoogie · 13/07/2025 16:18

Your views pretty much mirror those expressed on FWR. We have argued for third spaces for years but the trans activists don’t want ‘safe spaces’ for trans people - they want women’s spaces.

India Willoughby (man who identifies as a woman and shouted at Amanda Barrie on Big Brother) for example made a big show of walking past the unisex toilet at the airport and walked a long way to get to the female toilets. These predatory men want our spaces.

Your views would be described by the trans activists as hugely transphobic. Welcome to the GC side!

Willoughby also made a “joke” on Twitter about getting a van to kidnap JKR, Maya Forstater and Joanna Cherry.

Annoyedone · 13/07/2025 16:22

CunningLinguist2 · 13/07/2025 16:01

100% ally here. Have the most gorgeous friends across the LGBTQ+ rainbow - some of the kindest loveliest, most supportive, funny and beautiful
people you could wish for. None of them and in particular the trans among them (as they currently get the brunt of the hate) deserve so much as a smidge of it.
Super disappointed and alarmed about the current hateful climate.

So you’d support any lesbian friends stating they were female homosexuals then? Awesome. Or, let me guess… all your lesbian friends are totally trans inclusive and regularly date transwomen 😉

Annoyedone · 13/07/2025 16:24

CunningLinguist2 · 13/07/2025 16:02

It is entirely possible to be an ally of both!

Is it? How? How do you square the circle of women wanting single sex spaces as per their rights and males with a trans identity demanding access to those spaces?

Gettingbysomehow · 13/07/2025 16:24

I'm pretty hateful towards anyone who attempts to strip me of my rights as a woman. I'm a 60s child. I still remember when we had no rights to speak of and the big fight to get them.
Trouble with today's kids is they were never in that position and haven't had to fight for equality every day of their lives.

sanluca · 13/07/2025 16:26

Waitwhat23 · 13/07/2025 16:05

So you agree that women should be able to access single sex spaces and services which, are in fact, single sex? As clarified by the recent SC judgement and codified in the EQA2010?

Because if you're arguing against that, then you are definitely not an ally to women.

.

BundleBoogie · 13/07/2025 16:28

CunningLinguist2 · 13/07/2025 16:02

It is entirely possible to be an ally of both!

Did you miss what happened to JKR? She supports her trans friends, she thinks they deserve their rights and protections and she also is an ally to women.

Did you miss Roisin Murphy getting cancelled for making one comment about misuse of puberty blockers in children?

Did you miss Gillian Philips, an author sacked and cancelled so badly she had to retrain to a different career? She had recently lost her husband and she shared JKRs tweet about her support for trans peoples rights and the need to balance women’s rights. Her publisher and agent both dropped her instantly under pressure from the trans activists.

Did you miss the many many other people get cancelled, sacked, vilified and dragged through the mud who just made a minor comment generally about women having rights as well as trans people and care should taken to balance them.

It is 100% not possible in TRA-land (many captured organisations and public services) to be a trans ally and women’s ally. One word out of line and you are cancelled and abused.

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:29

Gettingbysomehow · 13/07/2025 16:24

I'm pretty hateful towards anyone who attempts to strip me of my rights as a woman. I'm a 60s child. I still remember when we had no rights to speak of and the big fight to get them.
Trouble with today's kids is they were never in that position and haven't had to fight for equality every day of their lives.

This is such a big part of it.

So many people dont undestand how hard women had to fight for their rights to their own prisons, sports, toilets, fomedtic violence refuges.

Perhaps if they did, they'd get why we don't want to mindlessly hand these faculties over to men, because men say they want them.

sanluca · 13/07/2025 16:30

sanluca · 13/07/2025 16:26

.

Edited

Edit went wrong. Sorry

AnSolas · 13/07/2025 16:31

TheignT · 13/07/2025 15:24

Sorry should have quoted the post I'd just read, it said, "Does anyone think it isn’t a problem when a male NHS doctor states he is biologically female and it’s “hate” to say otherwise?" So it didn't say anything about a patient saying they wanted to be treated by one sex.

Jill said he is a female employee.
Kate is a female employee

Jill decided Jill wants to use the womens changing room in work. Jill has full access to the mens changing room and has been using it since Jill started working at the location.

Kate objects to being put in a position where her employer expects Kate to undress in front of a male or be present while a male undresses in front of her.

That was not included as a T&C of her contract and she is not willing to agree to any amendment.

When Jill comes in Kate leaves the changing room to allow Jill to change.

When Jill is in the changing room Kate stays outside and lets Jill change before using the changing room.

Kates employer now say that refusing to be in the changing room while Jill changes is a breach of Kates contract of employment.

Should Kate be sacked?

MixedMetals · 13/07/2025 16:35

I got turned off the whole thing when posters were cheering on Trump being elected because 'he knows what a woman is'. When it's got to the point where you will cheer on an anti abortion sex offender you aren't a friend of women and it makes me think that rather than actually caring about women's rights you are just a common garden transphobe.

The same goes for the UK elections, voting purely on the fact that they 'know what a woman is' and ignoring any hateful rhetoric. People are absolutely fixated on this to the exclusion of all else and it's not normal.

Shedmistress · 13/07/2025 16:38

MixedMetals · 13/07/2025 16:35

I got turned off the whole thing when posters were cheering on Trump being elected because 'he knows what a woman is'. When it's got to the point where you will cheer on an anti abortion sex offender you aren't a friend of women and it makes me think that rather than actually caring about women's rights you are just a common garden transphobe.

The same goes for the UK elections, voting purely on the fact that they 'know what a woman is' and ignoring any hateful rhetoric. People are absolutely fixated on this to the exclusion of all else and it's not normal.

Were people 'cheering on' Trump or thankful that the likes of Rachel Levine who removed all age restrictions around the [again] off licence cancer drugs being given to teenagers that wreck their bodies for life were going to be removed from office?

I mean, at any time the Democrats could have decided that this was utterly unhinged behaviour.

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:38

MixedMetals · 13/07/2025 16:35

I got turned off the whole thing when posters were cheering on Trump being elected because 'he knows what a woman is'. When it's got to the point where you will cheer on an anti abortion sex offender you aren't a friend of women and it makes me think that rather than actually caring about women's rights you are just a common garden transphobe.

The same goes for the UK elections, voting purely on the fact that they 'know what a woman is' and ignoring any hateful rhetoric. People are absolutely fixated on this to the exclusion of all else and it's not normal.

The extraordinary thing is not that Trump knows what a woman is.

The extraordinary thing is that the Democrats (pretend they) don't.

Its absolutely not anyone's here's fault that the Dems decided to fall on this sword. I cannot fathom how they ended up here.

SheepInMyShed · 13/07/2025 16:39

At this point anyone declaring themselves to be a trans ally is just openly telling everyone they hate women.

Behaviour from the gender ideologists has been appalling. Maybe not from all of them, but there aren’t many who’ve stood up against them, despite there being some incredibly dangerous behaviour and many people with backgrounds that mean in normal times they would not be part of any organising committees, they’d be steered well clear of. But in TQ+ land anything goes. Child rapist? Sure go ahead. (Steven Ireland). Man with background of kidnap and torture, and openly inciting violence to TERFs? Yeah, why the shit not? (“Sarah Jane” Baker). I could go on. If you want more - and there is TONS of this awful stuff connected to TW - go and look at RipX4Nutmeg on Twitter who records many such cases.

For a minority group they haven’t half got a lot of power behind them, and they have so many idiots covering up their dodgy pasts for them whilst they carry on egging on this eternal hatred for women. Every single woman going along with this ideology is wilfully blind to this. All the information is out there.

Shedmistress · 13/07/2025 16:40

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:38

The extraordinary thing is not that Trump knows what a woman is.

The extraordinary thing is that the Democrats (pretend they) don't.

Its absolutely not anyone's here's fault that the Dems decided to fall on this sword. I cannot fathom how they ended up here.

I know exactly why. Obama got into his position due to the Pritzkers.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2025 16:41

This is another commonly levelled smear. As someone who doesn’t “cheer on Trump” I’ve been accused of it for pointing out that it’s down to the other party/parties to have a position that the majority of the electorate don’t find totally absurd and unelectable, rather than whinging about how the majority chose to vote.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 13/07/2025 16:41

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:38

The extraordinary thing is not that Trump knows what a woman is.

The extraordinary thing is that the Democrats (pretend they) don't.

Its absolutely not anyone's here's fault that the Dems decided to fall on this sword. I cannot fathom how they ended up here.

Exactly.

Also, on the point of people deciding who to vote for on the basis of the candidates' stance on one issue, this isn't uncommon at all. It's how the Greens get votes and it's how the SNP, Plaid Cymru and most of the NI political parties operate.

Annoyedone · 13/07/2025 16:41

MixedMetals · 13/07/2025 16:35

I got turned off the whole thing when posters were cheering on Trump being elected because 'he knows what a woman is'. When it's got to the point where you will cheer on an anti abortion sex offender you aren't a friend of women and it makes me think that rather than actually caring about women's rights you are just a common garden transphobe.

The same goes for the UK elections, voting purely on the fact that they 'know what a woman is' and ignoring any hateful rhetoric. People are absolutely fixated on this to the exclusion of all else and it's not normal.

i know! You are so right those silly women should just shut up and accept they have no rights to single sex spaces and that the feelings of gender non conforming people trump theirs in all case. I mean, who cares about women right?

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:43

I wonder what else GC Mumsnetters on here will be held responsible for / expected to pick the pieces of ...

So far we have ...

Men's mistreatment of other men in public bathrooms.

The Us Democratic party's baffling policy decisions and ultimate self destruction.

Anything else?

TaborlinTheGreat · 13/07/2025 16:44

MixedMetals · 13/07/2025 16:35

I got turned off the whole thing when posters were cheering on Trump being elected because 'he knows what a woman is'. When it's got to the point where you will cheer on an anti abortion sex offender you aren't a friend of women and it makes me think that rather than actually caring about women's rights you are just a common garden transphobe.

The same goes for the UK elections, voting purely on the fact that they 'know what a woman is' and ignoring any hateful rhetoric. People are absolutely fixated on this to the exclusion of all else and it's not normal.

I think that if people in positions of power start pretending they believe that anyone can be a woman just by saying they are, thereby changing the definition of half the world's population without their consent, that's a monumentally important thing, and pretty reasonable to be fixated on it. And if an elected leader does not peddle that lie, then it's perfectly reasonable to be happy about that, even if you otherwise think they are a terrible leader.

DiamondThrone · 13/07/2025 16:44

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:43

I wonder what else GC Mumsnetters on here will be held responsible for / expected to pick the pieces of ...

So far we have ...

Men's mistreatment of other men in public bathrooms.

The Us Democratic party's baffling policy decisions and ultimate self destruction.

Anything else?

Oh that's easy.

Nazis.

WilfredsPies · 13/07/2025 16:45

@Ilovelurchers

Yet some posters on here seem to believe that the worst and most important abuse of women's rights currently occurring is some privileged middle class white women having to endure (what they think is) some privileged middle class white men saying they are women If you want an example of over privileged, racist, classist bollocks, then what you’ve just written serves it up by the bucketload.

Firstly, do women of colour not count as women? Are they not equally as entitled to single sex spaces? Should the bloody wonderful Allison Bailey have just shut up and sat down because she wasn’t white? Gender Criticals want women’s rights for all women, irrespective of their age, their political beliefs, their faith or their skin colour. The fact you think this issue only affects white women, or that white women are the only women to care about it is fucking disgusting. And fucking racist.

And let’s add a bit of Islamophobia and anti semitism and anti half a dozen other religions in there as well because, by your reckoning, they shouldn’t be caring about the fact that they can’t bank on a single sex facility actually being a single sex facility so they can use it in accordance with their faith. But that doesn’t matter, unless they’re white, right?

And as for privilege, you can sod right off with that crap too. Do you think it’s privileged middle class women who are sharing prison cells with men? Do privileged (rich) women with other options spend time in women’s refuges because they’ve got no choices? Of course they fucking don’t. I’m working class. Other than the colour of my skin and the country of my birth, I’ve had no privileges whatsoever. I’ve lived in poverty (including a spell in a women’s refuge as a child), I don’t have a great education, I still live in social housing and I earn well under the national average. Men taking women’s rights affects me, and women of all skin colours in the same class as me. Do you think Sandie Peggie was sat at home counting bundles of cash and deciding which Caribbean island to visit in between working as an NHS nurse? Do you think the girls on my estate can simply take up horse riding or violin lessons instead if their place on a running team, or rugby team, gets taken by a boy? How dare you suggest that this doesn’t affect working class women?!

I’m so grateful to all the women who have spoken up and fought for my rights. Both the working class women who really have had everything to lose, and the rich ones that have been able to put their money where their mouths are. And for you to attempt to reduce them down to ‘privileged middle class white women’ shows that you really have fuck all understanding of this issue.

Trafficking, FGM, women being denied an education, I mean, where do we start? Truly terrible things, horrific things that warp and destroy lives Surprise! We can concentrate on more than one thing at a time. The FWR boards are confirmation of that. Although, while we’re on this topic, I hope you’re on Reddit and/or attending Pride events to ask all those TRAs who are so passionate about wanting to be a woman why they’re only concerned about gaining access to single sex spaces? Why aren’t they concerned about women in Afghanistan? Why aren’t they campaigning against FGM? Perhaps ask them why they stood outside the FiLiA conference in Glasgow and drowned out women’s rights campaigners from Iran and Afghanistan if being a woman is so important to them?

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 16:45

Shedmistress · 13/07/2025 16:40

I know exactly why. Obama got into his position due to the Pritzkers.

Well it's hard to disagree that was very influential, but I still don't get the degree to which they are holding on to it, against all sense and reason. And how few of them express any dissent at all.

Perhaps the amounts of money involved and/or the dirt the Pritzkers have on people are just way beyond our comprehension.

Maybe someday we'll find out.

Gloriia · 13/07/2025 16:46

Shedmistress · 13/07/2025 16:18

Women: We don't want men in our single sex spaces
TRAs: Die in a grease fire bigot bitch. TERF. Decapitate TERFs. Kill the TERFs. If you see a TERF punch them in the fucking face.
Women: Yeah, that's why.
'Allies': Gosh those women are so hateful to such a vulnerable minority.

👏

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