AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

It’s not my job and I don’t want to sit on MN 24 hours a day when they are wealthy enough to employ somebody to do so.

This is pointed out, discussed with concern at length regularly on the Feminist board. Maybe you could come and contribute?

I didn't see those posts.

I'm asking for your criteria?

100% ally here. Have the most gorgeous friends across the LGBTQ+ rainbow - some of the kindest loveliest, most supportive, funny and beautiful
people you could wish for. None of them and in particular the trans among them (as they currently get the brunt of the hate) deserve so much as a smidge of it.
Super disappointed and alarmed about the current hateful climate.

I’m not engaging with you, I saw your hijacking and lecturing/ bullying posting on the other thread. You can look for yourself.

It is entirely possible to be an ally of both!

If you accept that gender identity doesn’t change a persons sex, yes, and that women matter as much as male people who identify as women. Otherwise, no.

Male is a sex. You can see someone’s sex if you’re not brainwashed.

Transitioned women (transmen) can pass more easily that men, but the vast majority don’t pass as male when face to face. Most (IME) look like non conforming women, just like me.

Transitioned men (transwomen) rarely pass. I’ve yet to meet a trans ID’d male of any age over puberty that passes as a woman. On the internet with tons of makeup and filters maybe, but in real life it’s as obvious as the nose on your face.

So you agree that women should be able to access single sex spaces and services which, are in fact, single sex? As clarified by the recent SC judgement and codified in the EQA2010?

Because if you're arguing against that, then you are definitely not an ally to women.

@CunningLinguist2
Of course it is possible to be an ally of both. Unfortunately most trans allies support the agenda that trans rights trump women’s rights.

This!!!!❤️

If you ask to be seen by a male doctor do you expect a female doctor to come in and start a physical exam?

Would you expect the staff member you asked to ignore you and to go looking for a female doctor?

If that happened have you given the female doctor permission to put hands and objects on or in you?

Are you being transphobic for objecting?

Why should you have a say in the sex of the person who has access to your body?

In Scotland TRA ran a political campaign over the evidence collection for sexual assault court cases. They objected to the word "sex" and wanted to replace it with the word "gender" to allow persons of both sex to be classed as either men or women.

The campaign was over an Act designed to give the person who was sexually assulted the option to pick the sex of medical examiner. This and specialist training would help minimise the additional distress involved in the evidenced collection medical exam. The Examiner would testify under oath so that the evidence collected help proved an assault of a sexual nature took place.

The TRA argument was if you were sexually assaulted and asked for a specific sex, an Examiner of the other sex but the same gender could carry out a "lawful" collection of evidence (effectively without your permission). Then use that exam to help convict another person of assault and not themselves be charged.

Now why any half decent person believed that the State should employ a person who would choose to carry out a second assault on a victim of sexual assault ..............

I have many times thanks (although not on this user name) - and I wouldn't really say it was many times TBH.

Mumsnet has always been post-moderated. Nothing gets deleted unless it's reported, across the whole site, for the past quarter of a century.

Feel free to suggest to them that they completely change how their forum is run and hire an additional army of moderators to pre-moderate the thousands of daily posts if you want. Can't say I fancy your chances.

I'm just asking for your definition and no, I didn't do anything like that on the other thread. That's just a transparent attempt to smear.

Why can't you engage with the questions asked?

What do you think about allies who carry placards saying burn and decapitate women? Don't you think that is actual hate as opposed to lots of very reasonable women on here calmly saying identify as you wish but don't make me go along with it?

'You can't change sex' isn't hate, it is fact.

And infamous TRA Mridul Wadhwa, beloved of fake feminist types like Deborah Frances White, was so incensed that the SNP voted to give women the choice over their own body that he flounced from the party.

It can be.

But not when transwomen are demanding access to women's spaces. Then their requirements are in conflict with women.

But my point is, more generally, that people don't tend to go around declaring themselves to be allies pd women.

What do you think about the way TRAs have treated women for years?
The threats of death, rape etc.
The doxxing.
The attacks.
Getting the arrested.
The harassment.
Pushing themselves in single sex spaces without consent (predators).

What are the awful things women have done?
We’ve said men can’t be women (true)
We’ve tried to retain our rights, boundaries and safeguards.
We try to keep ourselves safe.

What have we not done
Attacked anyone
Threatened to rape or kill anyone
Prevented trans people from meeting or gathering
Forced ourselves into trans spaces.

Which side is problematic?

It’s such a nonsense to suggest that the LGBT community is all rainbows and lovely stuff when there’s so much evidence that it’s not, but this is yet another part of the gaslighting that we’re so used to.

I am part of the LGB, but lesbians are the bottom of the heap right now.

Hope someone’s noting down all the extremely compelling genderist arguments which aren’t just insults, smears or emotional blackmail on this thread, wouldn’t want to miss any!

Do YOU go around declaring yourself to be an ally of women? As a matter of interest.

I'm sure your friends are lovely, yes, but if they're men, they need to stay out of women's spaces, out of respect for women and for the law. If that's the case, then no problem.

MSP's argued in Parliament that it was bigoted for rape survivors to request a female medical examiner. I watched the debate on Holyrood TV and wept for those women. Called bigots by their own elected representatives. It was appalling.

www.holyrood.com/editors-column/view,six-little-words-for-the-word-gender-substitute-sex

Just posting this again, for everyone's info

https://terfisaslur.com

Women: We don't want men in our single sex spaces
TRAs: Die in a grease fire bigot bitch. TERF. Decapitate TERFs. Kill the TERFs. If you see a TERF punch them in the fucking face.
Women: Yeah, that's why.
'Allies': Gosh those women are so hateful to such a vulnerable minority.

Your views pretty much mirror those expressed on FWR. We have argued for third spaces for years but the trans activists don’t want ‘safe spaces’ for trans people - they want women’s spaces.

India Willoughby (man who identifies as a woman and shouted at Amanda Barrie on Big Brother) for example made a big show of walking past the unisex toilet at the airport and walked a long way to get to the female toilets. These predatory men want our spaces.

Your views would be described by the trans activists as hugely transphobic. Welcome to the GC side!