AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

Probably on Reddit saying how horrible we all are.

You said, "Does anyone think it isn’t a problem when a male NHS doctor states he is biologically female and it’s “hate” to say otherwise?" and my point was in my over 70s years of life I've never heard a doctor state their sex and say it is hate to say otherwise. I find the image of doctors walking round declaring they are biologically anything rather odd as why would they?

Oh come on, nobody is suggesting doctors greet patients by saying 'Hello, I'm a woman'. But patients are allowed to request a female doctor. If they do so, and a female-presenting male doctor treats them, then he is, to all intents and purposes, stating that he's a woman (unless he informs them he isn't).

That’s great. I don’t mind at all if men use men’s spaces or unisex ones. I just want them to stay out of women’s.

Why are you making up a backstory for something you don’t know about? This is in a court case, as pp pointed out.

🤣🤣🤣

what about those of us that are broke atheists? Where do we apply to get our funds?

And for the bazillionth time, women were called Nazis bigots and transphobes for daring to suggest TW used unisex facilities

But the doctor that poster referred to stated this in court. He is biological and he is a woman and therefore a biological woman and would treat a patient who had requested a female doctor without telling them he is trans.

informed consent matters. Not everyone will bother whether it's a male or female doctor, but to these who request same sex, it should be same sex or told that it cannot be facilitated.

I know @SternJoyousBee i could really do with it, but at least I’ve got my rent free apartment in some people’s heads. IYKYK

I was called a 'Nazi aparthidest' for saying this on X

Oh, give me a break.

If a woman requests female only intimate care in hospital, do you think it is acceptable for a trans identifying man to present themselves as the one to provide that care?

It’s more than a bit frustrating for people very late to the party on this suggesting solutions that have already been suggested loads of times over the years to TRA only to be vehemently rejected

I mean honestly do you think we hadn’t thought of this stuff?

Have you never had a smear or a mammography?

But “nuanced and balanced”!

I’m going to start a thread on Site Stuff about the endless threads started by people who post once, the bugger off. It’s clearly in bad faith and it’s reaching ridiculous levels now.

@TheignT
Don’t be ridiculous. Nobody is suggesting that doctors should be announcing their sex.
However, if a woman, for whatever reason, requests to been seen by a woman doctor she should be allowed to be seen by a woman doctor not a man doctor who feels he is a woman. It is not possible ,it should be stated clearily that she will be seen by a male doctor instead.
In my 56 years of life no doctor announced their sex to me but there have been plenty of times when I was asked whether I would prefer a female doctor for certain examinations.
The same obviously should apply to male patients who want to see a male doctor.

They are - but I wonder why on earth so many MNers choose to engage with these threads. This one was about 6 pages long when I first saw it, with just the one post from the OP. So I realised this was a plopped and didn’t engage.

We’re up to 25 pages now.

Why???

A man who wants to enter women’s changing rooms or other single sex spaces is usually considered by society as dodgy. That is not the fault of women on mumsnet. That is the fault of men who sexually abuse and rape women. Their behaviour has caused this issue so go and take it up with them and stop blaming women for not being supportive.

I’m going to post on site stuff about the endless threads hijacked by anti trans activists and the way hate filled posts are left unless posters report them. It isn’t ok with racism, abelsim, homophobia or transphobia and the amount MN must make from the endless advertising on here means they are more than capable of providing a proper moderating system.

No one is outlawed, don’t be melodramatic. Everyone can use the facilities for their sex. Where they choose not to (and many transwomen do use the men’s facilities, there’s no reason they can’t) they can seek out gender neutral facilities, which are increasingly available.

I have trans identifying people in my life. I feel sympathetic and protective of the young women who present as masculine. They have a number of issues that mean they desperately want to escape being female. So did I when I was younger. The awful thing is that they can’t, but they believe it’s possible and some have harmed themselves in the attempt.

I have nothing but contempt for the middle aged man who is destroying the lives of his family in pursuit of a fantasy. And he can stay the hell out of our spaces.

The young man who is presenting as feminine is both autistic and gay; I wish he could love himself as he is without medical alterations, but that ship has sailed.

Many of us on the GC side know and love trans people. We’ve seen up close what damage is done by an unchecked ideology that lies about gender reassignment and about the law.

Standing against it is about love, not hate.

It’s a free world.

@Cr01ssant55 can you provide us with your working definition of 'transphobia' as it would be useful to understand what you mean when you say that?

Surely the most effective thing to do is to read the threads themselves where these posts appear, so you can see them in context and get an idea of whether it's the regulars or drive-by screenshot merchants, and report it directly?

More threads about threads that don't actually link to the offending wording aren't going to be more effective than that.

The two deleted posts on here that I reported for a start. They were just two that leapt out pretty effortlessly,plenty more I could have delved into. There will be more but I can’t be arsed to scroll through. If I hadn’t reported them they’d have remained. It’s not ok and MN has a problem when racism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia can and does just sit on threads. A big problem.