AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

Yet you have not posted one example of someone saying "all transpeople are sexual abusers."

There are many decent transwomen who don't enter female spaces. Yet sadly they're the minority.

If you think MN is the worst then I think you're not looking widely enough or only through one lens. I've seen some horribly abusive stuff written about even mildly GC people. And there's very little openness and tolerance by trans allies. IME you're often not able to say why you have concerns without being accused of transphobia or literal violence and banned from SM groups.

And that's great. People can live and dress and be however they want. We can all relax and get on with our lives.

But the supreme court has spoken. 'Transwomen' are not, and never will legally be women.

Majority surely?

Or we can levy that at any group.

Actually, when you think about it, you likely DO have a problem with certain people living the way they want to. Paedophiles, controlling and coercive husbands/partners, Andrew Tate wannabes etc. Its OK to have a problem with certain groups in society!

Who is stopping them? Who is saying they shouldn't live their lives as they wish, within the law?

Oh lol now we’re all using ChatGPT to write our posts. Tell you what @Slightyamusedandsilly lets put that to the test. Happy to debate any aspect of why a self selecting group of men shouldn’t use women’s spaces just because they want to. Let’s see who has a more logical argument.

And you would be ok with a fella called Barbara with fake tits giving your nan intimate care or getting changed in front of Barbara at the swimming pool changing room?

I think most MNers and most people generally think that sex is about biology, and that no matter what you think you are it doesn’t trump your biology.

I think most MNers and most people generally would (and do) have sympathy for people who feel that they are ‘in the wrong body’ or ‘the wrong sex’ or whatever. But that sympathy is because there’s nothing that can be done to change the facts.

I have never understood how this threatens a trans person’s ’right to exist’. There is a trans person at my work. I refer to her as she, as requested by her. But I don’t actually think she’s a woman. She’s a man who thinks she’s a woman. I feel sorry that she is in the position she’s in. I don’t wish her ill. I certainly don’t want her to ‘not exist’. I just don’t think she’s a woman, even if she does.

It's not about the 'trans community'. It's about males who have used the banner of the trans community to destroy the safeguards feminists fought so hard to build up, and our spaces that our foremother feminists fought so hard to build up.

Our anger is at males who use the banner of 'trans' to destroy womens hard women spaces and rights.

You still don't get it. It all comes down to male vs female. Trans is actually incidental. Our anger is at males.

This is really interesting - if it's a deeply held genuine belief, why does challenge affect you so deeply if you are correct?

You mean making the same valid points over and over even though they're disregarded by handmaidens enabling autogynaephilia?

Then we will have to agree to disagree.

And obviously, if you see anything pretty awful or even slightly awful, ask for it to be deleted.

There’s no hate within me, just reality. I won’t be forced to state that just because Will wants to wear a dress and call himself Jill, he’s suddenly a woman. I’ll still call Will a man because that is fact, that is the truth.

It can be really shocking the first time you hear women not being conciliatory towards men. But that doesn’t mean it’s hatred.

Exactly. If you manipulate and control the language, you control the narrative. That they cast womens rights as 'transphobic', rather than purely 'anti men' as men did in the womens lib era in the '70s, you've found a way to control the narrative against womens rights and cast it as the 'bad guy'.

This!

Not everyone wants to debate everything all the time. It gets boring hearing the same blah blah rhetoric.

Trans … it’s just boring. No amount of MN “debating” is going to make it ok for men to be in women only spaces. No amount of debate going to make it true that men have babies.

I’m so bored already.

I would love to see this excessive degree of concern balanced on this site by a similar concern for women.

Tumbleweed.

Yet on threads posted here by very vulnerable women, victims of abuse, intimidated women, are inundated with MRA types. They can smell them from a mile away. Lovely little gems I've witnessed in the past three days alone involve a slew of insults against women, disparaging their mental health, telling them they are 'idiots' and helpfully informing victims of rape that not all men are like that and that 'women do it too' (hardly), and berating a woman, who was simply exercising her right to walk in woodland unapprehended, for running away from a man displaying distinctly suspicious, intimidating behaviour toward her. She overreacted, and his feelings mattered more than her safety, apparently.

MRAs and their henchwomen will waste no time and never hold back from telling women they're irrational; overreactive; making a silly fuss about nothing. And this on a site geared toward a mainly female demographic.

OP, where is your concern over the constant hatred and misogyny directed toward women on this site?

I see the OP has done what most of the posters about this issue have done: start a baity thread about trans people not having the right to exist, then standing back and watching the reactions, never to post again.

It's almost like wrestling a pig, everyone gets dirty, but the pig loves it. In this case the OP is avoiding getting involved but enjoying the spectacle.

This.

People here support women’s rights. Trans and women’s rights often clash. In these cases, women’s rights must come first. Biological sex is immutable and unchangeable.

What do you think about all the death threats made by various TRAs towards gender-critical women such s as JK Rowling, Kathleen Stock, etc.?

My stating the I don’t believe that a trans woman is a woman is not hatred. I worked in an environment with a disproportionate number of trans people and treated them with nothing but kindness. On the whole they were vulnerable people and their transition did not solve their problems. Seeing this is not hatred, but an understanding that they’ve been sold a lie.

Well the vitriol is by trans activists who want women to die in a grease fire, be raped until we bleed, be skinned alive, etc. The vitriol is only, I repeat only, from one side. So you're being disingenuous with that argument. I find it frustrating that males are calling for us to be raped to we die, skinned and burned alive etc while these men are pissing on feminist statues in public. We, understandably feel angry, and yet you call us to task. Not the Mens rights trans activists who are threatening violence. It's just a way to scold women for our very justifiable anger. Why aren't you and the OP writing threads about these men? Why? Why are you scolding women for responding?

Trans allies are here, more of us than you'd think and we do voice support for the trans community, although typically drowned out by an instantaneous pile-on.

I find the discourse around Lily Tino interesting

TRA's 'all transwomen are women if they say they are, regardless of whether they have taken any steps to pass'

What about Lily Tino - a trans you tuber who deliberately gets herself misgendered in restaurants and tells off service staff for views and also recently went to Disney land, visually and audibly explained the process of bottom surgery through the medium of cake pops and corn dogs with children in the background and went and took selfies in Disney bathrooms with women and children present

TRA's -damn it, errr he's not really trans. He is a cis man just trying to make us look bad.

So which is it - either all trans women are women or is it only the ones who don't give you a bad rep?