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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

1000 replies

Wordsmithery · 13/07/2025 08:50

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
43
GoFaster83 · 13/07/2025 11:54

BedlingtonWillow · 13/07/2025 09:45

Of course it’s better for a woman or girl to mistakenly be called sir, which they can clear up in a second, than for women to not be able to call out a man in their space to keep them safe, which is actually what you’re talking about, right? So disingenuous. It’s not the people who understand reality and safeguarding who are lacking in intelligence.

So making a 15 year old feel incredibly vulnerable in a public setting is okay with you? Why does the ugly 14 year old girl have to be treated like that because they dont conform to what you think a female should look like? Oh you're a feminist but only for the conventionally pretty ones? Magic.

NoSoapJustUseShowerGel · 13/07/2025 11:55

Totally agree. Obviously the issues are with sports participation, and toilets and changing rooms, but other than that why not let people get on and live their lives as they wish if they’re not hurting anyone.

SamiSnail · 13/07/2025 11:55

AutumnLeaves91 · 13/07/2025 11:10

It’s a cesspool of transphobic people unfortunately, I agree with you OP

Womens rights and rights of rape survivors like me to have single sex spaces is not 'transphobic' unless you are admitting to us that being pro trans = anti women and it's femphobic, @AutumnLeaves91 .

OuterSpaceCadet · 13/07/2025 11:55

Women of Mumsnet:

You were being too gender non conforming! Please remember to think of the feelings of men before your own safety and feelings. Your role is to support and champion, not to consider yourself a full person in your own right.

Ddakji · 13/07/2025 11:56

Livelovebehappy · 13/07/2025 11:28

Which actually just confirms the characters of the people we are dealing with here. Probably just popped on here before setting off for her local trans protest, ironically which are generally filled with hate and vitriol towards women.

I doubt she’d even be doing that. I don’t think she cares one way or the other about transpeople. She’s certainly never posted in support of trans people, or about trans at all.

Shes just shitstirring and as is always the way, people are falling for it.

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 11:57

teksquad · 13/07/2025 11:47

Usual story. The batshit signal has gone up and so the incoming 'hatefuls' and 'viles'.

Shows the desperation really. They know its over. This is just another scheduled PR rehabilitation attempt. Which will fail.

What is over, the trans community won’t going anywhere. It’s been around for many years around the world and will continue to do so.

GoFaster83 · 13/07/2025 11:57

And how exactly would i have proven it and cleared it up? Short of me letting you look at my body, you would have had to accept my words, which anyone can say so it makes no odds if you confront me or not.

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 11:59

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 11:57

What is over, the trans community won’t going anywhere. It’s been around for many years around the world and will continue to do so.

No one's asking them to go anywhere.

Just obey the law.

SamiSnail · 13/07/2025 12:00

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 11:06

It’s perfectly possible to discuss women’s spaces without decrying a whole section of society. This thread isn’t about women’s spaces but bullies on MN who accuse all trans people of being sex abusers who shouldn’t exist.

It’s vile.

No one is accusing 'trans people' of being sex abusers. What we are saying, is that MALES, no matter how they identify, can be sex abusers. However, if you want to go with that line, evidence shows that transwomen (not transmen btw) commit sexual offences 5 times greater than all other males.

I think it's fair to say that males who enter female spaces knowing they're male, and knowing females say no to them there, will often has wrong intent. Any male entering a female space against females saying no, does not have good intent. Hence the stats. There are plenty of transwomen that don't enter female spaces.

AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?
AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?
AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?
AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?
Soontobe60 · 13/07/2025 12:01

Diverze · 13/07/2025 10:17

I don't agree. If you aren't an activist you don't have to speak up.

I am white British. People don't assume I agree with Tommy Robinson unless and until I speak out against him. You can infer that I don't agree with Tommy Robinson because I am not out there marching with him.

My neighbours are Muslim. We don't assume they are religious radicals unless they go around telling everyone they are not.

Every time I post on here that a common issue on trans posts on Mumsnet is a conflation of the radical with the majority, someone like clockwork comes along and says "ordinary trans people need to call it out then". No, they really don't. They are allowed to live peacefully with a baseline presumption of good character like everyone else who is a member of a group which has a radical fringe. If you believe otherwise then you are in fact transphobic.

The baseline presumption for trans identifying males is that they have the potential to behave as all other males could. That’s how safeguarding works. We don't assume ALL males are a danger to women, but enough of them are to be of concern. And by ‘danger to women’ I’m not just talking about rapists and sex offenders. It’s misogynistic for a man to claim to be a woman because they ‘feel like a woman’. In that one small respect, any man who does so is a danger to women as they have no consideration or understanding as to what being a woman ‘feels like’.

Meadowfinch · 13/07/2025 12:01

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 11:20

Not discussing women’s spaces but the treatment of the trans community on MN which is dreadful.

I've never seen any dreadful treatment of transwomen on Mumsnet. The moderators do a great job of deleting any such rubbish.

What I do see is people disagreeing with the trans lobby, which is completely reasonable and fair. If that is their opinion, they are entitled to it.

As far as I can see, your primary complaint is that most people do not agree with you.

Cannongoose · 13/07/2025 12:01

I haven’t read the full thread but when people claim MN or women or a subgroup of women hate trans people I couldn’t disagree more.

I often wonder what the apparently “non-hating of trans people” women and men of this world actually think the situation SHOULD look like.

If Will says he is Jill ..,

should medical staff be asking:
When was your first period?
Do you experience cramps with your period? Heavy bleeding? Irregular periods?
Do you have PCOS?
Have you ever considered a hysterectomy for menstrual pain or endometriosis or adenomyosis?
Have you ever conceived a child naturally?
Have you had a vaginal birth?
Ever had a c-section?
Are you in perimenopause?
Ever had cervical cancer or cervical cell changes?
Vaginal polyps?

Instead of just default asking how the patient identifies or the “could you be pregnant” question or by across the board refusing to use the term mother or breastfeeding - shall we go all inclusive on the equality and ask those sorts of questions of trans women?

Shall we advise Tubal ligation to prevent pregnancy or abstinence rather than a vasectomy? Prescribing the pill?

As for the NHS it presumably is supposed to then record that Jill has never had any of the above women’s health issues - great. You are a very lucky woman Jill.

Or - to carry on with imaginary: - have you been sexually harassed because of your sex? Oh you don’t believe in sex or biological categories. No worries there then.

So you don’t consider yourself a minority in any respect? Oh you do because you wear heels? Have you considered wearing trainers although there are many many people worldwide who do wear heels. Ah I see - it’s not appropriate to suggest that you change your footwear to prevent harassment?
Jill you should know that It’s up to women to stay safe so if you wear heels or a bra you are asking for it.
You were sexually assaulted?
I think you are looking for attention.
not that you say because you have a lot of support from the workplace and family and friends and the government and the police, more than “cis” women do, so you don’t need attention. I see, must be looking for money then Jill? You didn’t seem to mind being ogled with your Instagram pictures, did you? You and these women showing yourself off and you don’t expect men to react like they do.
Did you report it immediately to the police? (You shouldn’t fear the police as they can’t hate women or be transphobic so if you didn’t report immediately you are obviously lying).

Are you a trad wife?
Cant cook?
Do you respect your man?
Do you plan to stay at home when you have children Jill?

or.. is it meant to just go a little bit like this -
Why do you feel you are being targeted by your co-workers Joll? Because Jill is using the female spaces. Just carry on Jill I’ll tell them to not notice or mention if you do use the female toilets.

Is that it? That’s how we should deal with trans people so there is no perception of “transphobia”?
Or do we need to post support messages on every conceivable social media platform to pass as non-hating?
Really, I’d love to know HOW the non-hatred is supposed to be demonstrated.

In fact - most people don’t give a shit what anyone else does with their lives or what they chose to wear or call themselves but when the physical reality of women is trumped by the outfits some women wear or historically have worn it becomes a stupid world — why not have toilets and hospital wards and sports and prisons for people who wear trousers or T-shirts or skirts or balaclavas or flat caps or wellies when we are at it.

Who knew physical reality could be outdone with textiles.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2025 12:03

I mean, it’s clear why TRAs and their allies rage about MN. Women on MN have consistently stood up against them and have contributed to some landmark victories, such as the Supreme Court decision clarifying that in law “trans women” are still actually men.

The many loud women all over the internet who enable men in bullying other women have zero consideration for the clear majority of women, who don’t feel their sexed reality is defined by sexist male gaze stereotypes, and need female to mean female only for a whole host of reasons they often don’t have the imagination, life experience or empathy to understand. It’s never been popular or cool to stand up for women and girls when there are more exciting and worthy causes to be found.

Screamingabdabz · 13/07/2025 12:04

My genuine question to the pro-trans posters.

In your trans inclusive world, how are women and girls allowed to communicate genuine and innate distress, anxiety, discomfort or even being slighty uneasy around male bodied people in their supposed safe spaces?

Are we supposed to just stfu? Are we supposed to suppress those feelings as we are not entitled to them? or something else?

It seems that transwomen are allowed to voice those concerns. Hence the reason given for why they don’t want to use male facilities. Why aren’t women afforded that same consideration?

Soontobe60 · 13/07/2025 12:05

RanchRat · 13/07/2025 10:41

Totally agree. I also think a lot of the anti trans stuff is AI generated, some funded by the American evangelical Christian right that our GC sisters are so fond of.

Have you not got an original thought in your head?

WasThatACorner · 13/07/2025 12:06

I don't have a problem with anyone existing and living the way that they want to.

My issue is with people trying to force their altered definitions of my own identity back onto me.

WOMAN - I am a woman, was born female are raused / socialised as such. My identifying as a woman comes down to so much more than "person with cervix". Women have fought throughout history to be seen and to exist as more than reproductive vessels.

LESBIAN - I am a lesbian. A woman who is sexually and emotionally attracted to women. Like a lot of gay people, this took time for me to fully accept and own as an identity that I am proud of. It is regularly challenged by people making ridiculous comments. To have a movement erase the meaning of lesbian is incredibly disturbing. I'm attracted to women, all the little things that make women women. It isn't transphobic to say that I am not attracted to transwomen. I'm not saying that they aren't beautiful people, I'm not saying that I hate them, I'm not saying that I don't want them to exist. I'm saying that my identity matters to me as much as theirs do to them.

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 12:07

Meadowfinch · 13/07/2025 12:01

I've never seen any dreadful treatment of transwomen on Mumsnet. The moderators do a great job of deleting any such rubbish.

What I do see is people disagreeing with the trans lobby, which is completely reasonable and fair. If that is their opinion, they are entitled to it.

As far as I can see, your primary complaint is that most people do not agree with you.

They only delete reported posts, they do not sit and moderate threads so some pretty awful
posts are given open season to sit and they do.

The anti trans lobby may sit for hours and dive on anything remotely related but the vast majority don’t.

fffiona · 13/07/2025 12:08

SheepInMyShed · 13/07/2025 11:33

If I was aggressive I apologise, that was not my intention.

It is a subject that’s spoken about frequently. I haven’t personally seen what you’re talking about, but there are areas of MN that I don’t really see.

Assuming you have an autistic child who is identifying as trans I’d point you to FWR sex and gender boards - there are loads of very knowledgeable women who’ve been through this, either themselves or their children.

Thanks. I’ve found the Bayswater group helpful. And l have hust been through the last five pages of the gender board (so around 200 threads) and apart from a rather snide post about young girls using walking sticks, and a few gender neutral interesting threads on health care professionals and teen transition there is nothing specific on girls who identify as trans - it is all about sport, safe spaces, pronouns, trans activists etc. All important issues. I know there are posts on girls (I’ve started many of them) but I stand by the fact that Mumsnet focuses heavily on the threats that biological males pose to women rather than see that the majority of trans people (i.e. girls) are themselves victims of patriarchy and misogyny and are completely failed by the system.

TheKeatingFive · 13/07/2025 12:08

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 12:07

They only delete reported posts, they do not sit and moderate threads so some pretty awful
posts are given open season to sit and they do.

The anti trans lobby may sit for hours and dive on anything remotely related but the vast majority don’t.

But you can't give any examples of these 'pretty awful' posts?

teksquad · 13/07/2025 12:08

Is the transphobe in the room with you now?

ohdelay · 13/07/2025 12:09

DrowningInSyrup · 13/07/2025 10:08

What's boring is the constant threads all saying the same thing about trans people and yes there is, in my opinion vitriol. At some point any of our children may transition and although I don't agree with it per se, the amount of disgust and hate on here seems disproportionate.

Edited

Did you mean to respond to me as I haven't said anything hateful or vitriolic? Also no disgust. Biological reality is just a fact.
Why would reality change if my son had a mental health issue? I wouldn't encourage him in any delusion and I definitely wouldn't enable him in self harming? It is boring. All the words and whataboutery are worthless because "transwomen" are men. It shouldn't need saying but "transmen" are women, funnily enough they seem to know that and aren't clamouring to endanger themselves in mens spaces.

Waitwhat23 · 13/07/2025 12:09

NoSoapJustUseShowerGel · 13/07/2025 11:55

Totally agree. Obviously the issues are with sports participation, and toilets and changing rooms, but other than that why not let people get on and live their lives as they wish if they’re not hurting anyone.

Institutions and other organisations affected by the doctrine of TWAW (not a full list)

Prisons (SPS as main example)
Rape crisis services (ERCC, Brighton)
Changing rooms (rise of voyeurism)
Single sex facilities where women get undressed (saunas and spas for example)
Toilets (including toilets in workplaces and schools which have specific requirements which are frequently ignored by activists)
Domestic violence refuges
Rape survivors requesting female Forensic medical examiners (Scottish Forensic Medical Examiners Bill)
Representation on public boards etc (FWS v Scottish Government)
Lesbian dating sites (Tickle v Giggle)
Support groups (miscarriage, endo etc)
Sports (too many examples to mention)

....

RetiringRita · 13/07/2025 12:10

N0sferatu · 13/07/2025 11:20

If the vast majority are law abiding they'll be staying out of women's single sex spaces will they?

They do!
There are 8800 GRC holders. They may use single sex loos I have no idea.

The threshold for GRC was changed in 2010 and 2020. Blame our politicians.
I grew up in the 70/80s and there was always a suspect person in the loo. We just laughed later.
What has changed is violence towards women and girls. We've allowed porn and unfettered access to social media and influencers. Nowhere is safe anymore.
If you want to know what this is really about listen to Dr Soh and Chloe Cole a young ftm detranistioner.
When my family member was at the height of their gender change a kind mumsneter sent this to me. It changed my understanding after years of hell.

SamiSnail · 13/07/2025 12:10

Cr01ssant55 · 13/07/2025 11:15

That does not speak for the trans community as a whole. The vast majority are law abiding citizens so it’s not really relevant.

As long as the vast majority (of transwomen) are staying out of female only spaces, that's correct. They are not breaking the law.

Soontobe60 · 13/07/2025 12:12

Slightyamusedandsilly · 13/07/2025 10:56

The AI generation theory does make a lot of sense for why the GC arguments on here are so cyclical. No nuance or subtly. I hadn't considered that before.

If I think about how many times I have to reword my AI prompts when working, it totally links to the way at times vitriolic posts here seem to have no ability to 'read the room'.

Most of us are able to post here without having to resort to artificial intelligence - we have our own intelligence thank you very much.

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