AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

But they don’t all just "choose to identify as their non-birth gender", do they? Many want everyone else to validate their choice, and label as "hateful transphobes" or "bigots who want to deny our right to exist" anyone who chooses to exercise their own right to not be forced to say something that is, in their opinion, untrue.

It's completely relevant. Unless you think that, because the vast majority of males are law-abiding citizens, we should just go ahead and let males into women-only prisons and rape-crisis centres, regardless of how the women feel about it. Perhaps you think we should scrap single-sex anything?

By toxic backlash, do you mean being asked to justify your views and being asked about 'difficult' issues such as sport, rape support & prisons?

What I really like about MN is how well informed many posters are on this topic, with facts and logic at their fingertips, which the 'feels' people don't seem to be able to argue against.

I have indeed read some eloquent sensible posts and agreed. I have also read some rather nasty posts as well.

I assume that poster means along the lines of 'rapist gender' ala Nicola Sturgeon.

We're told self id is a human right and have Government's trying to push through bills to set that as policy, the GRR bill for example. We're told 'acceptance without question' and that if someone says they are trans, then they are.

But then if someone who is trans commits an offence (Isla Bryson, the double rapist placed in the female prison estate for example) then we're told (very earnestly) that that person isn't really trans, they're just pretending.

If I was aggressive I apologise, that was not my intention.

It is a subject that’s spoken about frequently. I haven’t personally seen what you’re talking about, but there are areas of MN that I don’t really see.

Assuming you have an autistic child who is identifying as trans I’d point you to FWR sex and gender boards - there are loads of very knowledgeable women who’ve been through this, either themselves or their children.

👏

It’s fine to disagree, but at least attempt to back it up. Explain why men should be allowed into women’s spaces and sports, prisons, rape crisis centres etc etc. I and all the others who don’t want this can say and evidence why this isn’t a good idea.

The ‘other side’ can’t, except to say ‘it’s just hateful vitriol’. Have you got any examples yet of the vitriol that you said you see?

I have a trans relative. I suspect any "hate" and "vitriol" you think you have seen is from trans activists.

You can not change sex and I will never forgive those who told vulnerable young people that they could. I'll never forgive the NHS for lying to parents about suicide risk.

My trans relative - and their same sex trans partner - have poor health because of the lies they were fed. They should have been happy, healthy, same sex attracted people instead of suffering from health so poor that one cant work full time. The other's health is slowly getting worse. They are lying to themselves and everyone around them about who they are and they can never recover from the harm done to them.

If you are a "trans ally" you supported - and may still be supporting - the harm of vulnerable young people. So you're very very unreasonable.

And another example.You are decrying an entire community and accusing them all of dreadful things. It’s just appalling. They this they that. It’s truly vile.

Doesnt change the reality bud. Women are sick of men larping as us and appropriating our lived experience, and that's not going away, particularly when rapistsand paedophiles use it as useful cover.

So you’re tarring women who challenge the trans doctrine of ‘TWAWGOI’ because of the occasional numpty who makes a sweeping statement?

How ironic.

Yabvu.
I'm a hetero woman. I'm neither homophobic nor transphobic. My ethos is I want everyone to be happy as long as they don't harm anyone else.

Woman have fought for the right to safe spaces for centuries. I'm not giving them up now, for anyone. Transwomen are not women, they are men. If trans people have a problem with how they are treated in men's loos or in men's sport, or anywhere else, then that behaviour needs to be dealt with, not by removing women's rights. And the more aggressively they pursue their demands, the more they prove they are testosterone-driven men, with all the aggression that entails.

Apart from that, transwomen genuinely don't cross my mind from one month to the next. No hate, no vitriol at all.

Just leave women's safe spaces alone.

This.

Great post.

Which part?
Is it the not believing that humans can change sex?
Is it upholding our boundaries?
Is it ignoring the wish for us to ignore safeguarding?
Is it that we see the misogyny of the entire movement?
Please, tell us which treatment is dreadful?

I see that the OP appears to have posted and run, thus setting up the opportunity for TRAs and allies to come on and call the women of MN hateful without any evidence. Yet again.

It also appears that apart from a minority, people on MN disagree with OP. Nearly 900 votes now. But I expect they’re all bots or evangelicals or something.

Usual story. The batshit signal has gone up and so the incoming 'hatefuls' and 'viles'.

Shows the desperation really. They know its over. This is just another scheduled PR rehabilitation attempt. Which will fail.

Is that not the same as what is being said and done about women who don't play the trans "game"? We're "terfs", "transphobes", "uneducated", "eliminating the trans community", etc? Why is it only women who have to "be kind" and "accept people for who they are" why don't we deserve the same level of respect that we're supposed to give? Why should we throw away everything that we, our mothers and grandmothers fought hard for just because the trans community would rather take those rights from us, than campaign for their own spaces, sports leagues etc? When they are prepared to do that then I, for 1, will support them, but I will not support the theft of single sex spaces from woman by men.

Have you looked at the various links to terfisaslur.com?
Do you have anything to say about the level of violent vitriol aimed at women on a daily basis by TRAs?
And still you can’t pinpoint what we are saying that’s so awful, probably because we’re just a bunch of mean women with facts trying to hang onto our rights and safeguards.

I don't know why they bother. Do they think they'll change hearts and minds with this approach? If they explain it to the simple- minded women just one more time we might see the light?

Or is it just another opportunity to berate us for daring to say no? Shame us into submission? Not happening. Ever.

There are two sides to the argument of judging a group of people based on the actions of a few.

On the one hand what you say, don’t judge the transwomen community based on a group of transactivists and a group of fetishists and rapists. You say this is bad and don’t do it. I agree.

On the other hand, there is also often the argument made that women shouldn’t object to a transwoman in the changing rooms, because my mate the transwoman is so nice and lovely. And then we should judge a community based on the actions of a few? I disagree.

The best example of the rotten culture that is trans ideology is that any compromis is shot down. Single sex and mixed sex facilities, transwomen state they will still use the female single sex. Transwomen are women, but women are female to distiguish between the groups, transwomen now also claim to be biologically female. As shown in a thread here, a lesbian community start a dating app for lesbians, transwomen excluded, a transwoman comes in an gloats he and his mates will gatecrash by getting their female friends to help them circumvent the AI checks. Because lesbians are not allowed to exclude male people, that is transphobic.

It is unbelievable that the law says women should be to be allowed to have single sex spaces and not have to share changing rooms with male coworkers, and MPs in the government go: no, mixed sex all the way and we will disregard the law.

Trans ideologists truly genuinely don't want to believe they're in the minority. The cognitive dissonance is so strong, they won't even allow the consideration that they are the 'bad guys' to enter their minds.

The fact is as evidence shows in polls all over the country including polls done in America by Democrat polling companies, that the overwhelming majority of people agree with the retention of female only single sex spaces. The ideologists are so deeply in their echo chamber they don't realise they are a fringe tiny minority and that their beliefs that the eradication of womens hard won rights and safeguarding and spaces is morally abhorrent and repugnant to the overwhelming majority of human beings.

The only way they can deal with being the bad guys, is by refusing to engage. That way, they cannot have their beliefs challenged within themselves.

But, surely, if it was that full of the vitriolic bile you claim it is, it'd be easy to find and evidence.

Yet, you can't do that. Funny that.