AIBU to think that MNers are excessively hateful towards trans people?

[Wordsmithery]

I accept that there are huge areas to be addressed when it comes to trans/non-trans rights: toilets and changing rooms, sporting events, prison accommodation, to name but a few. Government has a lot of work to do, listening to people's genuine concerns and drafting laws that protect everyone. And of course biological men masquerading as trans to prey on women are scum.
However, reading some of the many MN threads on trans people, it feels like there is a terrifying level of vitriol at the right of trans people to even exist. I emphasise, this is not about toilets/safe spaces etc. It's about Will's right to identify as Jill, or vice versa. Why does it really matter so much to us - are we scared of people being different? Are MNers failing to speak out because they're terrified of being shot down in flames? How is it hurting any of us if someone chooses to identify as their non-birth gender (beyond the caveats in my first paragraph)? What is the opinion of MNers with children or siblings or best friends who announce they are trans ?
Asking because I'm alarmed by the lack of trans allies (or even trans tolerators) on this forum. And I'm even more alarmed that there may be a reassuring number of trans allies on here but we never hear from them because they know what response they'll get.
No hate please. We seem to have enough of that already.

If there are examples of people saying 'all trans people are sex abusers' you can quote them or report them as MN does not let generalisations stand, especially untrue ones.

No, it isn’t. Women using facts and logic to state why men should not be allowed in women’s spaces isn’t hate. It’s certainly not on a par with threatening rape and death to women who say no, is it? Thousands of posts from transpeople doing just that though. Do you have anything to say about that?

The majority of men don’t commit crimes no, and they also have to stay out of spaces not for them. Worth noting that of the violent and sexual
crimes that do occur, 98% of these are committed by men. Can you tell us which ones are the good ones from the bad ones? No you can’t so they all have to stay out.

Why does a small number of men get a pass because they feel differently about themselves?

OP what if yourcolleague announces he feels like a giraffe. Are you ok with that too?

Not talking about women’s spaces but the vitriol towards the community as a whole.

What about the treatment of women by trans activists, do you think that is dreadful too?

The examples I gave are policy. Not individual trans people but the effect of an ideology which has made our national institutions so captured to an ideology which demands that women not be allowed the single sex spaces and services they have a legal right has led to women are actually coming to harm.

And these are vulnerable women who are subject to this harm. Rape survivors who are self excluding from services they need because they are being denied single sex services (or being gas lit by institutions who say services are single sex when they are actually mixed sex or being told to 'reframe your trauma'. Women in prison who are vulnerable. 80% of Scottish female prisoners have suffered a previous head injury, through domestic violence.

All these are what is being highlighted by people on this forum and they're being told that they're 'mean and bigoted' for pointing it out. It is relevant.

So rather than trying to handwave away these inconvenient truths, try to justify this stuff. I'd love to see it.

Yet you can’t show us any examples. Saying no isn’t vitriol. Not falling into line with everything trans people demand isn’t vitriol. Pointing out transwomen offend at, at least the same rate as other men isn’t vitriol.

Again, with the ‘hatred’ 🙄

Have you not read any of the very articulate responses on here on why it’s important to protect girls and women? Or don’t you care? Please please please give us some ‘reasoning’ that makes sense of the idea that hard won female rights, safeties and dignities should be sacrificed to appease men. 🙏🏻

Yes but enough men do and that's why we keep them out.

The principles of safeguarding lead us to keep ALL men out of women's spaces.

The TRAs argue that we should make an exception for this one group. The grounds for doing so are weak to non existent.

Then several of this group turn out to be violent male sex offenders who are now being locked up with women.

So are we right to make a safeguarding exception for trans identifying men? Or wrong?

How many women have to suffer the consequences of this poor decision making?

I have briefly and one such post has been deleted. I don’t have the time or inclination to go through the thread as a whole and MN only delete reported posts so many stay. It’s a problem and not ok.

Yet here you are!

So you have no proof. Even when the TRA monitors screenshot what we’ve said to post on Reddit, it’s very mild stuff. Very little vitriol at all. So where’s the evidence?

I’m an ally and am vocal in most situations but can’t cope with the toxic backlash from stating these views on MN.

I'm not sure I understand your response? I'm genuinely interested in what you mean.

I'm GC because I believe in a society that needs to be based on biological fact not interpretation of feelings.

Trans people are vulnerable members of society that need to be supported but as with an anorexic we wouldn't do that by saying their reality is healthy and should be supported.

It's also dangerous to promote an ideology in children that is based on perpetuating a distorted reality. It is irresponsible because you're actively leading them down a path of potential greater mental health issues, bodily mutilation and irreversible damage.

Which actually just confirms the characters of the people we are dealing with here. Probably just popped on here before setting off for her local trans protest, ironically which are generally filled with hate and vitriol towards women.

If that’s been said it’s deleted.
No one is saying that.
The problem is when these men show predatory behaviour (forcing themselves into women’s spaces and directly going against their wishes) we can only act on the information that we have - that some are predators and are disregarding safeguards.

When a man is in the women’s loos we can safely assume that they don’t care about what’s best for women. We can’t tell by looking at him whether he’s a danger to us or not.

It’s not about decrying a whole section of society, it’s about upholding our boundaries and keeping safe, nothing more.

And the police stand by and watch while women are threatened, abused and prevented from lawful assembly. It’s shameful. And the useful idiot handmaids you see posting here just exacerbate the issue.

A stop, plop, roll from @Wordsmithery

I don't actually give a shit about middle aged men who want to be ladies, let alone taking the energy to 'hate' them. I give them as much consideration as any other mansplianer/alpha bro/wokebro/annoying man full of hot air.

I DO care about young kids thinking they can opt out of gender expectations with extreme body mods that can cause horrible, lifelong injuries.
I do care about vulnerable women in prisons, hospitals and rape crisis centres.
I have a lot of empathy for women who already live quite narrow lives due to obeyance of orthodox religions or strongly patriarchal cultures, who see their women only sessions, which must bring a huge sense of freedom, becoming mixed sex and therefore unusable.

So, I mean if centering women & children is aka 'trans hate' (froth, tears, crying, gnashing, jangling of bracelets, dramatic exit), I guess you could accuse me of that if it gives you a victim-based thrill?

Vitriol you can’t define or evidence (without using hyperbole). Like all the other plopper posters.

I actually don’t think a lot of mumsnetters have an issue with trans people - I think they have an issue with safe women’s spacers and since most mumsnetters are women you are just experiencing the thoughts of the majority.

The one I reported after a brief look has been deleted . I don’t have the time or energy to scroll through the lot and click on every thread. Ditto others so the nastiness stays. It is a MN problem.

You mean people who don’t agree with you.