Thread 6: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

Second article in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-whats-in-the-book-and-what-the-observer-has-found

Third item in the Observer
https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/the-salt-path-the-truth-behind-the-blockbuster-book-video

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Thread 5 Thread 5: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement Raynor Winn

NB Please be careful when it comes to naming or implicating people who aren't in the public eye or have no connection to the story, especially where details are unclear or still emerging i.e. DON'T DO IT.

Keep on the path. No saltiness. Thank you.

New posters welcome. It would be helpful to read at least the three Observer articles before posting.

The latest Observer article seems to reiterate the narrative of emotional blackmail that permeates the books and RW/SW's interactions with those around them. To make a false claim that you only have a couple of months to live is (if fabricated) fairly shocking.

I agree with this. I think it was worked on for months as a one off which might shake the literary world a bit but was not expected to go viral. So she worked on getting everything she had at the time publishable. The X post from last week got 1.9m views and the story was widely picked up by other outlets - it made the 10pm news for both BBC and ITV - and foreign outlets eg People are also covering it.

If I was an Abersoch hotel owner (or employee), someone who knew Sally or Tim from Burton on Trent who knew why they moved to Wales or someone who knew them as Sasha and Avi (remember that comment?) I would be going to Chloe with my story. (Unless the political leanings of the paper put me off in which case The Times and the Daily Mail are available!) But these stories go back further in time and less evidence may be available so they will be slower to investigate, corroborate and get approval to publish from the lawyers.

but pretending you have 2 months to live is quite disgusting and macabre tbh. He may well have a neurological condition but the lying about his condition is no better than people who fake cancer to raise money on gofundme

This

Most of us on this thread know someone who has had a terminal diagnosis, and then passed away from the condition. We've seen our newly diagnosed relatives, friends, colleagues devastated, updating wills, fulfilling last wishes, sharing the news with horrified parents or children; then change physically, lose mobility, depend on painkillers, go into a hospice...

It's grotesque to lie about this, and to do it to a man whose wife has a very real disease, potentially deadly and with a gruelling treatment, is the lowest of the low. Understanding that he had been duped must have felt like a punch to the gut for Bill

The Observer accepts that the image in the photographs is not of the correct property. We showed an image of the pigeon-loft owned by another member of Walker’s family. The property owned by Walker and Winn is obscured by trees 15 metres away.

I think the someone looked into the person who made the comment about Sasha and Avi on Facebook and they were a weird conspiracy theory. type person

But I agree about the rest.

And there's some thing very off still about the medical stuff. But the observer may well not choose to go there as I think there's enough other outrageous behaviour to focus on

Agree. I actually had something like this happen to me.
An ex who wanted me back lied that he had cancer. At the time I was grieving for a very close friend who actually had died of cancer. It's a disgusting gut punch when you realise they haven't just lied they have lied in such a deeply nasty way

There is a social model called the drama triangle. In this theory there are three roles in human interactions - the victim, the hero/ rescuer and the persecutor.

You have probably met someone who is always the victim in all their situations. If you want to stay the victim regardless of what is happening then you have to put other people in the other roles. Bill is a really good example of a hero/ rescuer who helps the couple but then becomes the persecutor in their eyes when he points out they are not keeping their end of the bargain. Likewise the Hemmings are the rescuer when they offer Raynor a job but they become the persecutor when they find out about the embezzlement. Note the couple are always the victims and you can see that mentality in the statement on Raynor’s website this week.

If you’re not familiar with it, it’s a really interesting theory to look at if you feel you are being manipulated in some relationships into always playing a role.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle

From the moment I read their nephew's damning indictment of them, I've thought they were in this together.

To be honest, I've found it a bit perplexing that some of us here wanted to put the blame on her, and that he was just tagging along somehow. But never mind, at least this article puts him firmly in the frontline as joint shyster.

And it seems Tim Walker, who so conventiently broke down in tears in front of his uncle and aunt as he was tapping his uncle for a £100,000 loan, is well practiced in using tears to emotionally manipulate other people.

I doubt Sally Walker took out four credit cards in his name without him knowing. If she did take them out, it will have been with his full cooperation.

The reason medical fraud works is because people are too worried to challenge it.

but a 2 month terminal diagnosis is not a joke - to be at that point is extremely serious. I know people who have been given short times to live and have gone on for much longer but generally in pain and with that knowledge that they are on borrowed time. It’s awful and a disgusting thing to lie about. And that goes for the initial 2 years in the book too

this article isn’t as juicy as people were hoping but I think it puts beyond doubt that the walkers are users and liars

Something which is not clear from today’s Observer article:

Who were Bill’s tenants? What name was on the tenancy - the Winns, the Walkers or Four Hares Ltd? Because I don’t see how they can have a bank account as the Winns and the Four Hares company (which I think is most likely to have been his tenant) lists the Walkers as shareholders. He obviously wouldn’t know about the Wales saga but I think he must have had access to their real names.

Wow, finally caught up with the thread!

Reading the Observer article of today, I feel it does one major thing - it shows how complicit Tim Walker was in lying about his own illness.

I suspect that, from the very first moment they met, they realised they had truly met each other's soul mate, and from the beginning have always been liars and grifters.

I would be very interested to hear what they left behind in Burton-upon-Trent, but accept it's so long ago nothing concrete or proveable exists.

Likewise the hotel in Abersoch (if that was ever true).

Just checking in to the new thread - having missed the last 3 altogether.

I think the Observer have done a decent job today of answering RW's statement, and in the interview with Bill.

Was Landlines the one Ray did by herself or some of by herself? Very odd if so, to bugger off walking alone for weeks at a time when your husband apparently only has weeks to live.

Presumably the claim of imminent death was used to stave off questions about neglect of the cider business?

The timeline with Bill, taken from the article.

1.In 2018, the illustrated cover of The Sa lt Path caught Bill Cole’s eye, and he found himself profoundly moved by the story.

2.Bill made the couple an offer to live on the farm for a very low rent with a small fee for helping out .

3.Bill, who lived in Sussex but visited Cornwall often, says the couple told him they wanted to be involved in tending the orchards, producing cider and rewilding the farm.

4.But in October 2021, Bill says, Moth surprised him with an announcement. “He put his head in his hands and he said : ‘We went to the hospital this week and I’ve been told not to plan beyond Christmas.’”

5.Richard says he was concerned for his friend, however, because the farm was losing money. Cider was not being produced and the orchards were not being attended to.

6.Bill read how, in the winter of 2021, soon after Moth had finished another long walk, a neurologist told him his brain scan was “normal”, implying that the walk had drastically improved the symptoms of his condition.

7.Bill texted Raynor expressing his confusion. After a few days she responded to him but didn’t address his question about Moth’s illness.

8.A few weeks later, [2023] the chef Rick Stein was due to film an episode of his BBC series with the couple at Haye farm. Bill says he watched as they demonstrated the cider-making process, implying that they were involved in the farm’s production – something Bill says they had never done. “I felt I was being gaslit,” he recalls.

9.Not long after, Raynor and Moth terminated their tenancy at Haye farm, a year earlier than agreed. When Bill went to the farm to see them off, they were already gone.

I was trying to get on the observer to re read the article on her rebuttal but there seems to be an error when I click on the article - is it just me or has raymoth instigated a hack attack!!!

I just watched the Rick Stein episode and agree with pp that it all feels very awkward and forced.

I haven't read it but my understanding is they did a 4 month north to south walk/cycle from Cape Wrath to Plymouth. The delayed 4th book is about Sally's solo walk, not sure if it's because they claim Tim is too unwell.

Observer article timeline:
October 2021 - Moth tells Bill (and his friend Richard who was there so is a witness) he has 2 months to live.
September 2022 - Landlines is published which claims that, in the winter of 2021, a neurologist told him his brain scan was “normal”. Bill asks Raynor what is going on but she doesn’t address it.
Autumn 2022 - Rick Stein films with the couple at Haye farm. Bill watched them imply they are involved in the farm’s production – something Bill says they had never done and felt ‘gaslit.
“Not long after” - Raynor and Moth terminate their tenancy at Haye farm, a year earlier than agreed. When Bill went to the farm to see them off, they were already gone. They left a message on the table but we aren’t told what it says.

I know Bill was busy and his own wife was ill but why are we not told anything about what happened after Christmas 2021 when Bill realised Moth wasn’t dead or even getting sicker? Presumably his suspicions were aroused - did he pop round as a friend and neighbour and ask how he was to get an update? Did he not bump into them locally at all? Were they off doing a walk and not responding to texts? What happened in 2022?

We know they owed at least £150k to this individual from the case that led to their house being repossessed.

We know that there was a mortgage that would have had first call on any funds raised by the sale.

Given the sale price, it is unlikely that it did any more than cover the mortgage, and it may not even have done that.

Simply adding the standard interest rate to judgement debts for 12 years tells us that a £150k debt in 2013 would now be north of £375k. GIven that the Observer tells us that the debt was more than £150k by the time it went to court, and court fees, legal fees and the costs involved in repossessing and selling the house will have been added to that, it is almost certainly north of £400k by now.

On the question of legal action, it is too late for this individual to use the courts to recover the debt. The 6-year limitation period has long since expired. The debt still exists, but he can't use the courts to enforce it.

9.Not long after, Raynor and Moth terminated their tenancy at Haye farm, a year earlier than agreed. When Bill went to the farm to see them off, they were already gone.
Quote

Regardless of any health issues (real or hyped) leaving a note and the key under a plant pot is a pretty shoddy way to treat someone who has shown you kindness and trust.

Landlines was the one where they did the gruelling Cape Wrath Trail - a walk that makes the SWCP look like a stroll along the prom prom prom.

After Cape Wrath they did the West Highland Way, then some walking in the Borders, then some of the Pennine Way.

Well, they say they did. I doubt they did anything but a cursory few miles just to get a feel for the landscape so she could write about it.

I may have got the time lines confused but Stein must have filmed the episode in 2021 - the same year when Sally did the Landlines walk and spent time collaborating with a folk group / organising a tour. No wonder the farm was neglected. Then when visited by Richard (who seemed to have sniffed a rat), they are told Tim was weeks to live.

Apologies if I’ve got the timeline wrong.

Maybe they're revising it? I spotted a couple of editing artifacts earlier. I can still see it, but possibly a cached version, still with typos.

Yeah there were a few typos in it when I read it