Muslim women who dress modestly...

[TreatTreat]

If you're at the beach and you want to paddle in the sea, are you able to roll up your trousers? Genuinely wondering as I saw a muslim family on the beach today having great fun. The kids were paddling in the sea. The women weren't but this question sprung in my head.

You are the one that said that decent parents accept their young teens drink and sleep around, not me.

Thats not being sent to be 'cared for' is it?

Parented, bought up, by aunty, nan, its quite common

It's not up to you to judge who someone sleeps with. 🫣

@QuickThinking
Wow - the pushback on your experience with Muslim girls and the need to try and discredit you - serious brainwashing methinks. So @TheHazelCritic - I'll give you something else for you to push back on - I worked in an all girls school in Birmingham about 15 years ago (majority Muslim girls) and I was told on innumerable occasions about 14 year old girls who were disappeared and sent to Pakistan to be married. I was only there as supply on a couple of occasions - I asked about safeguarding but it seemed to be pretty much brushed under the carpet. But, no doubt you'll say - never happened - that should never happen in Islam blah blah blah....

That’s a different poster. And she didn’t say decent parents let their kids drink and sleep around. She said they equip their children with skills to navigate these things.

Thank you! There's a serious case of gas lighting happening on here; so much so I started to doubt my own mind. I re -read the Southall sisters guidance on forced marriage to reconfirm that it IS abuse. So To confirm to the doubters: it absolutely, definitely IS domestic abuse, coercion and the law feels very strongly about this. You can't just send your daughter away abroad because you believe them to be ' wayward ' or incapable of ' towing the line', and believe that no one will care because you're acting within your ' rights as a parent'. Lock your daughter away, prevent her from going to school, take her passport, make arrangements for a forced marriage - all utterly wrong. All examples of abuse.

I wrote a post quoting some mysoginistic lines/verses from the quoran that I am reading currently, and my comment got deleted.

I feel sorry for these women 😔

Forced marriage is definitely abuse, no one saying its not.
Sending your daughter(or your son) to stay with family abroad its not, not so hard to understand.
Using hyperbolic language "lock them away", "prevent them from getting an education" isn't helping anyone.
You know they have schools, tutors and online classes abroad too right? You know there are teens activities sports and hobbies abroad too?
It's your racist ideas that make you imagine some poor girl shackeled to the kitchen whenever someone mentions "back home".

This does happen, it is well known and yes, forced marriages aren't allowed in islam
Muslim women association work hard to put a stop to that, same with other u islamic practices such as FGM, the change is driven by Muslim women of those community as much as others.
I was "pushing back" on the poster that simply had to help her friends evade abuse so they could go clubbing, and the affirmation that all Muslim girls she knew where victim of some kind of abuse which was in truth simply not living the British teen party life.

@notnorman Are Mumsnet HQ not allowing your post to be seen?

What yoy have read is relating to sexual intercourse. Not stay away from her completely. Orthodox Jews cant even touch their wives skin when menstruating or bleeding post partum. Muslims do not have untercourse in this time.

Hope this helps...

The Qur’an addresses menstruation (periods) in a few key verses, the most direct being in Surah Al-Baqarah (2:222):

> "They ask you about menstruation. Say, 'It is harm (adha), so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves.'"
— Qur’an 2:222

Key Points from This Verse:

1. Menstruation is called "adha" — an Arabic word meaning harm, discomfort, or inconvenience. This refers to the physical and emotional discomfort it causes, not a moral impurity.

1. Sexual intercourse is prohibited during menstruation.

1. Physical closeness and care are not prohibited — only intercourse is.

1. Once the bleeding ends and the woman has purified herself (through ghusl, a ritual bath), sexual relations may resume.

Broader Islamic Understanding:

Menstruation is not sinful: It is a natural biological process created by God.

Women are exempt from certain acts of worship during menstruation — such as fasting (which they make up later), and prayer (which they do not make up).

Menstrual blood is not 'dirty' in a moral or spiritual sense, but it does have specific rulings concerning ritual purity.

Respect and Compassion:

Islamic tradition — when practiced with understanding — emphasizes care, respect, and sensitivity toward women during their period. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was known to show affection and kindness to his wives during their menstruation, without engaging in intercourse, following the Qur'anic guidance.

And this is from chat gpt so I cant be accused of being biased!

I was about to be very impressed 😂😂😂

What IS hyperbolic is you calling me a ' white saviour 'throughout the course of this thread; now I'm a 'racist'. You didn't like to hear how I tried to help some of my Muslim friends who were deprived of their liberty. Somehow I was the problem, based on my ( perceived) skin colour - I haven't actually told you what colour I am, but discriminate away! If you don't like what someone has to say, don't reach for insults, use your words and construct your argument, people are more likely to listen when you're not flinging wildly inaccurate labels. Would you consider the Southall sisters programme to be ' white saviour ' or ' racist' for promoting the safety of Muslim women or shining a light on family abuse? If not, why not? It may serve you well to reflect on your own prejudice and bigotry, but you may not like what you see in the mirror.

I never said any of those things! Talk about making up your own narrative. I was helping some girls who wanted to go clubbing?! To clarify once again, these friends were physically locked within the home, threatened with forced marriage, had their passports removed, told they could only be friends with other Muslims, removed from school when they ' misbehaved'. How convenient to gloss over the facts.

That’s not what I said at all. I said decent parents equip their children to navigate these things. Rather than threaten to send them off to a different continent. The first is good parenting the second is abuse.

Well actually they would be very interested normally if say I was threatening to send a child out of the country as a punishment. Modelling healthy relationships and letter our daughters learn about how to navigate all these things independently and without coercion is important ti their development into strong independent women

Presumably a Muslim man would be happy being a stay at home dad if the woman had a career that was important to her

Does Islam oppress women?

No, Islam does not oppress women. Rather, it affirms their right to maintain their identities, property, and dignity throughout their lives.
Even after marriage, a Muslim woman’s name and property remain her own. She is not obligated to spend her own money on her family. Additionally, Muslim women have the right to represent themselves in court as well as to testify on their own behalf. The Prophet ﷺ was directed in the Qur’an (60:12) to take the pledge of allegiance from women directly, thus giving them primary responsibility for themselves and their own lives and choices.
Even in the earliest days of Islam, women were free to speak on their own behalf, and their voices would be heard. One chapter of the Qur’an begins by mentioning a woman’s grievances to the Prophet ﷺ, stating:
Surely, Allah has heard the speech of the woman who argues with you [O Muhammad] concerning her husband and directing her complaint to God. And Allah hears your dialogue; indeed, Allah is Hearing and Seeing.
[Qur’an 58:1]

Does Islam favour sons over daughters

No, sons are not more valuable than daughters in Islam.
In fact, one of the earliest stances the Qur’an took against the blatant injustices within pre-Islamic society was in regard to its treatment of daughters. In particular, it denounced the practice of female infanticide, whereby infant girls, who were often considered to be little more than a financial burden and reputational liability, were buried alive. The Qur’an condemned the practice of female infanticide in the following verses:
And when one of them is informed of [the birth of] a female, his face becomes dark, and he suppresses grief. He hides himself from the people because of the ‘evil’ of which he has been informed. Should he keep it in humiliation or bury it in the ground?
Unquestionably evil is what they decide.

[Qur’an, 16:59]
In addition, the Prophet Muhammad ﷺ promised that anyone who “raises two daughters and does well with their upbringing” will be in Paradise with him ﷺ.
The Prophet ﷺ also instructed us to, “Treat your children equally when you give gifts.

Does the testimony of a woman is less than a man?

While there are cases—particularly in financial matters or courtroom scenarios—that might require the testimony of two women, this is not a universal rule. Some scholars have noted that such differences are a reflection of the fact that, in most societies, women were less likely to be involved in and familiar with conventional economic spheres. Other scholars have noted that having two women testify in lieu of one protected them from being pressured or coerced during testimony (particularly given that people often testify against people they know personally). Nonetheless, in domains where women would be assumed to have a greater familiarity than men (e.g., childbirth) the testimony of a woman was often deemed superior to a man’s.

Are men and women equal in Islam?

Every man and woman is equal in their humanity and dignity before God.
In Islam, nobility and distinction are a function of piety, not of gender, race, wealth, or any other worldly trait.
O people, We created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may get to know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of God is the most righteous among you. God is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.

[Quran, 49:13]

Hope that helps!

Interesting you had a post quoting from the Koran deleted, notnorman. Presumably they'd delete it if we posted quotes from Mein Kampf or other books filled with ranting hateful statements. Is that the reason your post was deleted? Will Mihrimah's post also quoting from the Koran (but quoting more bland statements) be deleted?