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Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

1000 replies

coffeeandmycats · 12/07/2025 12:11

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Tandora · 12/07/2025 16:02

NoWordForFluffy · 12/07/2025 15:50

Also don't care! 🤣

👍🏻

DuesToTheDirt · 12/07/2025 16:03

Tandora · 12/07/2025 15:56

Nope . Not men. not pushing boundaries. Not doing something they shouldn’t.

Trans people have been using the facilities compatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity for decades. This has not hurt you.

You're really not listening, are you?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/07/2025 16:03

Tandora · 12/07/2025 15:56

Nope . Not men. not pushing boundaries. Not doing something they shouldn’t.

Trans people have been using the facilities compatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity for decades. This has not hurt you.

Any men that goes into spaces not for them hurts the women who don’t want them there.

Trans women are men.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/07/2025 16:03

spannasaurus · 12/07/2025 15:56

Or just keep men out of womens prisons

And toilets!

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:05

MichelleCancelled · 12/07/2025 15:58

No one is born in the wrong body, how ridiculous. I don't tell my disabled child they were born in the wrong body.

People who believe they have been will strongly disagree with you. Who’s to know which is correct? Science will maybe tell us one day.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:07

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/07/2025 16:01

Well quite, but I don’t ’pop up’ on issues that I don’t care about, to tell posters that do care that I don’t care about them. Over and over and over. There’s disagreeing (fine if you can put some sort of argument across to back it up), and there’s just constantly just saying how much you don’t care and that because it doesn’t affect or bother you, no one should be bothered. Nope.

It’s not ‘tarring all with the same brush’. It’s recognising that males are the more problematic sex class back up by stats, and that women deserve and need their own SEX based spaces (and sports) for privacy and dignity. No one cares that you don’t care, you don’t get to give away that right for those who do on their behalf.

It shouldn’t be this difficult to understand but evidently it is.

Oh I do care. I care that transpeople are often treated very badly, with suspicion, distrust and sometimes hate.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:08

Is that so very hard to understand?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/07/2025 16:08

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:08

Is that so very hard to understand?

Trans people, or men?

FreezeDriedStrawberries · 12/07/2025 16:09

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:05

People who believe they have been will strongly disagree with you. Who’s to know which is correct? Science will maybe tell us one day.

That's just it, isn't it? I just don't think we know enough yet.

dynamiccactus · 12/07/2025 16:10

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 15:56

Probably a reasonable conclusion.

Agreed.

Azdcgbjml · 12/07/2025 16:11

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/07/2025 15:43

Is in line with the law though. Why do you think people should break the law in order to validate a tiny minority of men?

Have you got any examples of trans women being attacked in toilets? None of the males in my life would care.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/31/us/man-guilty-hate-crime-beat-trans-woman-restroom-trnd

https://metro.co.uk/2024/06/11/simply-refuse-trans-people-forced-use-birth-sex-toilets-21012701/

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/north-carolina-trans-sexual-assault-raleigh-bathroom-bill-women-charged-a8718796.html

https://hsph.harvard.edu/news/transgender-teens-restricted-bathroom-access-sexual-assault/

Tandora · 12/07/2025 16:11

DuesToTheDirt · 12/07/2025 16:03

You're really not listening, are you?

It’s quite the other way around

ParmaVioletTea · 12/07/2025 16:13

As Germaine Greer said ages ago: Women have no idea how much men hate them.

(or words to that effect)

I'm so sorry, @coffeeandmycats that was a bad experience with an entitled man.

Maybe we can help you think through what you might do if he tries this again? I think you could stand at the main door of the loo (not the cubicle), watching him, and just guarding the door until he's finished, to warn women customers that there's a man in there who is refusing to use the proper facilities, so you're just warning other customers.

The man is assuming that you won't embarass him, but be polite & kind & pander to his entitlement.

GrammarTeacher · 12/07/2025 16:13

coffeeandmycats · 12/07/2025 13:52

but on legal websites etc it says that a business cannot challenge a woman based on appearance? this is what I don't get

Of course you can’t. Think about it for a minute.

Discombobble · 12/07/2025 16:14

coffeeandmycats · 12/07/2025 12:21

due to the nature of our business (food) we are required to provide toilets unfortunately.

Lock the ladies toilet and keep the key at the counter

PrettyDamnCosmic · 12/07/2025 16:15

VioletsandDill · 12/07/2025 14:34

I'm the wrong person to ask because I don't think they should have to. Trans people have been using facilities they deem appropriate since...forever. There's never been an law in this country dictating which spaces they should use, and this new guidance is totally unenforcable.

So called "trans people" didn't even exist until about fifty years ago. Male transexuals have been illegitimately barging into the Ladies for the last fifteen years but the Supreme Court has clarified that "sex" means "sex at birth" so those born male are forbidden to enter the Ladies.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 12/07/2025 16:15

Tandora · 12/07/2025 16:11

It’s quite the other way around

It’s really not.

MyRootinTootinBaby · 12/07/2025 16:15

How did this person get into the building without you noticing? Cat cafes don’t usually let people just wander in, or the cats will get out, so they allow people in during their booked session?

Tandora · 12/07/2025 16:15

MistyGreenAndBlue · 12/07/2025 13:27

It did not! You are outright lying.
Trans people are protected by the characteristic of gender reassignment against direct discrimination regarding employment/housing etc.

That's it!
A space designated women only invokes the protected characteristic of SEX. As defined by the SC as referring to biological sex only.

And this is the law NOW! NOT In some mythical future after the guidance is out. NOW!

Please read the judgement 🤦🏼‍♀️. There’s no point in repeatedly insisting my completely correct information about what it said is “lies”. This is very silly.

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:17

suresuresuresure · 12/07/2025 15:52

Some, how many there are some so we keep all MEN out.

A young, female nurse murdered babies in her care. Do we prevent all young, female nurses from working with infants?

Men, like women, are individuals.

Azdcgbjml · 12/07/2025 16:18

spannasaurus · 12/07/2025 15:50

Quite a few
Do most schools have cubicles or communal changing rooms?

As a percentage of trans women, how many is "quite a few" exactly?

MrsSkylerWhite · 12/07/2025 16:19

PrettyDamnCosmic · 12/07/2025 16:15

So called "trans people" didn't even exist until about fifty years ago. Male transexuals have been illegitimately barging into the Ladies for the last fifteen years but the Supreme Court has clarified that "sex" means "sex at birth" so those born male are forbidden to enter the Ladies.

Of course they did.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 12/07/2025 16:19

Tandora · 12/07/2025 14:42

I said “only” because it “only” applies to interpreting the words as used in the EA.

Im not clear what you are struggling with.

The EA definition of sex only applies to interpreting the word sex as it is used in the equality act, for the purposes of setting out protections for people against discrimination on the basis of “sex”. Thats it. That is exactly what I said, and what I meant to imply. Because it’s legally correct.

Edited

The Equality Act also describes how you can lawfully discriminate by providing single sex spaces like toilets & changing rooms using the single sex exemption.

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