Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

It is funny how those who push trans suggest those who observe reality are against gender non-conforming, when they are the ones who say that being a ‘woman’ or a ‘man’ is defined by adherence to regressive sex stereotypes.

Because basically none of them 'pass'. A built like a brick shit house male will still look like a male even if he's in a dress and wears lipstick. Their physical and skeletal appearance does not change.

And women and girls and rape survivors like me 'care' that these males are in our spaces, that's why!!

I would go with the keypad lock on the door with different codes. We do this where I work. A completely different environment but we have never, ever had a problem. We have a separate disabled toilet which can only be accessed using a radar key. Baby changing facilities are located in both male and female toilets. We have had people who are not in wheelchairs or using any sort of walking aid ask to use the disabled toilet. After being told they will have to use their own radar key, they soon then ask for either the male or female toilet code.
Actually we had one man use the female toilet, he must have gone in after a woman or something. He graffitied across the walls with maker pen. We knew it was him because he wrote his name and date on the wall, and he had had an appointment.
Dickhead.

how would you know what gender they were born?

Babies are not born with gender, they are conceived as either male or female SEX. Gender is how women and girls are oppressed by society.

You really don't get it. It's not about 'stubble'. It's about gait. About skeletal proportions. Size, height, lack of hips, adams apple, limb length, hand size, shoe size, male jawbone. Philtrum width. It's about so, so, sooooo many more things than just voice and a bit of 'stubble' that post-menopausal women have, and still don't get confused as men.

We have had people who are not in wheelchairs or using any sort of walking aid ask to use the disabled toilet. After being told they will have to use their own radar key, they soon then ask for either the male or female toilet code.

Disabled does not mean difficulties with mobility, a young perfectly mobile woman with a colostomy is disabled and has as much right to the disabled toilets as an old man with walking sticks. Or a twelve year old with continence issues requiring nappies. Or a thirty-year old man needing catherisation or with Crohn’s disease. If you are denying them access to the disabled toilets, including by requiring them to have a key, then you are unlawfully discriminating against them.

Asking trans women to use men’s facilities is a completely different kettle of fish. I explained in a post above.

For men who identify as trans it is not about the space, or unisex would be fine, it is about the women in them. They want to force women to play a role in their fantasy. Women are not support players and don’t have to do this.

I’m more concerned about the poor cats, being grabbed at by strangers all day.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with 'trans'.

It's about male or female.

But is that not exactly what trans people are doing when they claim to live as the opposite sex

No! I don’t understand why people think this? It’s so odd.

If I say I’m hungry, I’m not claiming anything about how other people experience hunger, I just know that I need to eat.

No one needs to 'check' the sex of anyone.

Sex is very apparent and very obvious. To anyone with eyeballs.

we can recognise and respect transness for what it is without doing this:

destoys sex-based protections and erases the legal and social recognition of the significance of actual sex to public life,

of course we can.

Respecting, supporting and including trans people does not require any women to give up their rights or reality.

Why can’t people just understand that being trans is a form of difference that some (minority) others have, without projecting so much self involved nonsense onto it? Society won’t collapse if you recognise and respect trans people. Everyone else’s life can continue as normal; meanwhile trans people will stop suffering.
Thats it.

A person's mental health or dysphoria is NOT our issue to solve. It is profoundly unjust - and illegal - to expect females to suffer. Our rights come first.

It does when that 'trans' person is a MALE in a FEMALE only space.

Oh the irony. Yes, a group of males with a fetish or with dysphoria are so self involved they expect the vulnerable women and girls to alter our lives and rights to accommodate them, when there is NO...REASON they cannot use male spaces. They expect society to be turned upside down on it's head, to suit 1%.

Insanely self involved indeed. More like narcissistic.

Why can’t people just understand that a male posing as being trans and being so self-involved and narcissistic that they expect females to allow their male body into female spaces does not respect females. Female HARD WON sex-based rights come FIRST.

That's it.

It's that simple.

Eh? Mental health is everyone’s concern that’s why we have a health system.

No one’s rights come “first”- we need to find solutions that respect everyone’s rights.

There is no “female suffering” involved in respecting and including trans people. It will have virtually no impact on your life whatsoever.

Why can't you understand that a man is a man and no one can change sex?

There IS female suffering when a MALE BODY is in FEMALE spaces.

You've been told this at least one hundred times. A male with schizophrenia is still a male. A male who claims to be trans is still a male.

This is NOT and never was about 'trans' people.

It's about MALES.

Well in legally here, women's rights to their single sex spaces have been upheld. While men don't have any rights to women's single sex spaces in the grounds of their 'gender identity'.

Trans people are not perverts, they are not narcissists, they are not predators.

There is no “turning society on its head” involved in being trans.

These sentiments are nothing but wild and raging transphobia.

A trans identified man can never be in a female only space, and have never been in a female only space. They can only ever be in a male only space or mixed sex space even if they destroy a female only space to make it mixed sex by entering it.

The delusion that they can move through female only spaces unnoticed is just that - a delusion. Every single woman is reacting differently when they enter and force it to be mixed sex. These men fondly believe that when women compliment their clothes or ask about their lipstick that it is because they are being ‘treated as women’, when they are actually being treated as men. The responses to threat are freeze, fight, flight or FAWN. A lot of women choose fawn to try and reduce the perceived threat though they may not even realise it.

Tandora will literally never get this.

They're one of those TRA supporters that think women shouldn't have any rights or ability to set their own boundaries.