Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

apologies this was not my intention - no I went in to challenge him, left and then rang the police, as it is a cat cafe people pay for a time slot, e.g. 1 hour with the cats, so he was still on the premises when I rang the police, but not in the bathroom.

when I challenged them they were already washing their hands. SO would be leaving anyway, but I assumed it was a criminal offence and the police would act

yeh this basically, thanks

It is possible that this person was born female, transitioned to male, and is now detransitioning black to female. Which toilet should they use? Which toilet should a trans man use? Born/biologically female but with every outward appearance of being male? What if it was a trans woman who was indistinguishable from a biological woman (assuming you aren't planning on inspecting everyone's genitals)? Is it actually the biology you are concerned with or is it the appearance? Some biological women do have deep voices and facial hair after all.

Why not just put a big sign up in your window saying people who's appearance does not align with their gender are not welcome here? You'd obviously be happier if they didn't come in at all.

I feel this 😂 🕵️‍♀️ 👏

I agree completely, however apparently (and I'm happy to be proven wrong here, it's illegal for a business to challenge someone based on physical appearance?

also as a hypothetical (I don't want to de rail my own thread) how can someone provide they are biologically male or female? the whole thing is stressing me out

OP, you might get more information and advice on the Feminism: Sex & Gender discussions board. They're very knowledgeable.

The code might work, annoying as it will be for the 99.9% of people who use the correct one without question.

apologies I worded this poorly, I spoke to the man, and he had a "male" voice, there are in total 3 toilets in the male and 3 in the female (plus a baby change in both)

Knowledgeable is an interesting word for them

I think it’s unlikely that the trans society and the local uni will be regularly booking 1 hour time slots at the cat cafe if we are being honest so it’s unlikely to be a regular issue for you.

Im surprised you thought the police would actually come and visit your cafe to arrest your paying customer enjoying their coffee because they used the wrong toilet. They don’t even attend when houses get burgled most of the time

Whilst I am of the option I don't want males in females toilets if you are a small cafe and have 2 self contained toilets does it matter who goes in them? Or are they bigger so you have an area with a sink and a separate cubicle for each sex?

I like the code idea, but I suppose the difficulty I have is, how can I tell someone that they look like they might be a trans woman and not an actual woman? when apparently I'm not allowed to assume this based on appearance legally?

The whole thing seems to be a mess and I feel the government need to do more to explain to small business owners what they should do, to be safe for woman and legal

And correct.

I wouldn't stress about it, it's probably a one off incident

@Columbidaeof course :-)

as lots of people are asking about the toilets I will clarify.

2 sets of toilets - each with 3 stalls in them and 2 sinks (the men's also has urinals in) we also have a radar key locked disabled toilet on the ground floor but obviously this is only for disabled customers. So I guess technically 3 sets however I didn't mention at the time as these are only for disabled customers.

Yes it has been widely misunderstood. The judgement didn’t say that at all, the judgement was about interpreting what the word “sex” means in one particular act of parliament - the EA 2010 . The judgement clarified that the word “sex” as used in the act refers to “birth sex” and that “woman” means women “at birth”. That means that protections from discrimination in the act should be understood as referring to these groups , although the judgement also clarified circumstances where protections for women may apply to trans women or enable exclusion of trans men.
None of this has anything to do with criminal law, nor does it make it illegal to enter a toilet.

to be fair I didn't expect them to attend, but I did expect them to log it. Also we do have quiet a few university users who come and visit the cafe, we offer deals such as £20 for 3 hours, which includes unlimited hot drinks and biscuits. A lot fo students come , use the WIFI and study

@coffeeandmycats Message mumsnet using report this post and ask for it to be moved. I'm fairly certain you are allowed to challenge people on looks but Feminism: sex and gender has several legal people on it who can confirm it. I wouldn't trust the police

I bet if you had a man who threatened to give him a sex change by cutting his balls off if he didn’t get out, he’d have left. He was just being a dick and getting off on belittling women. What a prick.

So you called the police after this person had already left the toilets?
Do you really think they have nothing better to do?
I wouldn’t worry though - I doubt this customer will be back after your batshit behaviour.

The customer you phoned the police on will likely tell their friends how they were treated so hopefully they will avoid you for that reason. There’s no guarantee you were even correct about their biological sex

Who cares then? So the man/woman was in a stall? Why is that even an issue?

Thanks for this, so are you saying that basically it's not illegal for trans women to use the men's toilet, but I need to enforce asking them to leave if they enter? this seems like a legal minefield..

Of course you can't decide based on appearance, where is the line on performing feminity properly? There isn't. we don't need more stories like this one:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/07/09/im-just-ugly-not-trans-train-driver-told-colleagues/