Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

Stop promoting lies. This is paragraph 2 of the judgment which doesn't even include the word "Transwomen"

2. It is not the role of the court to adjudicate on the arguments in the public domain on the meaning of gender or sex, nor is it to define the meaning of the word “woman” other than when it is used in the provisions of the EA 2010. It has a more limited role which does not involve making policy. The principal question which the court addresses on this appeal is the meaning of the words which Parliament has used in the EA 2010 in legislating to protect women and members of the trans community against discrimination. Our task is to see if those words can bear a coherent and predictable meaning within the EA 2010 consistently with the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (“the GRA 2004”).

https://supremecourt.uk/uploads/uksc_2024_0042_judgment_aea6c48cee.pdf

Also don't care! 🤣

How many do you think would be a reasonable number?

Quite a few
Do most schools have cubicles or communal changing rooms?

How many do you consider unacceptable?

forcing women to allow males in female single sex facilities is entirely incompatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity.

Women have been sharing women’s spaces with trans women for decades. There is no evidence that Your dignity, health; safety, privacy and humanity have been meaningfully compromised by this.

It's down to common decency that people respect sex based rights. Many of the TRA and the gender changers just don't respect people's sex based rights, yet they say they are a vulnerable group and stomp all over other people's rights.

Transwomen are men. Always have been and always will be. You cannot change sex and get out of the toilets or real women.

Some, how many there are some so we keep all MEN out.

Providing single sex toilets is always justified as a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim i.e. for reasons of privacy & dignity.

It is not the role of the court to adjudicate on the arguments in the public domain on the meaning of gender or sex, nor is it to define the meaning of the word “woman”

Exactly:

here the court clearly states that they are categorically NOT making a statement about who is and isn’t a woman. They are not saying trans women are not women. Or that trans women are men. They explicitly say so as you have very helpfully quoted here.

The way to solve this problem is to provide more women's toilets than men's. Yet bizarrely I don't think I've been to any place in my life that does this. All I can think is that either the architects or the funders or the people signing off on projects are men, and just don't care.

Tell that to katie dolatowski's victims or the female prisoners who've been sexually assaulted by transwomen prisoners

Correct, men have been pushing boundaries and doing things they shouldn’t for a very long time. Glad we agree on something.

With respect, AccidentallyWesAnderson, you “pop up” equally often. It’s a public forum 🤷‍♀️ are only those who share your thoughts supposed to post?

Boards like AIBU, yes, absolutely because it seems to give licence to be rude and aggressive.

That you find it baffling that someone would hold a different opinion to you is your problem rather than mine, I’m afraid. People who hold a different opinion to mine can explain to me until they’re blue in the face. I’m unlikely to change my mind. Much as I suspect you’re unlikely to change your opinion however much I “explain” to you.

Thats fine, people are allowed to disagree. A world where we couldn’t would be alarming.

What isn’t fine is tarring an whole group of people with the same brush because a tiny minority of them behave appallingly.

I suspect were we not talking specifically about trans people, you would agree.

The comparison with gay people is certainly not a trope. In the early 80s, a surprising number of people believed that they were being harmed by the very existence of homosexual people, that they would contract HIV by sharing the same air. So no, not a trope.

Prisons are different to toilets. Of course there needs to be security in prisons to protect inmates from violence.

They didn't have to rule on the legal meaning of female as that was settled in the 1970 corbett vs corbett case

😂

Probably a reasonable conclusion.

Or just keep men out of womens prisons

Nope . Not men. not pushing boundaries. Not doing something they shouldn’t.

Trans people have been using the facilities compatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity for decades. This has not hurt you.

There is plenty of evidence. Just ask Sandy Peggie or the Darlington nurses how they felt about being forced to accept males in the women's spaces. Ask Lia Thomas's teammates. Ask Katie Dolatowski's or Karen White's victims. Ask Isla Bryson's teenage female coursemates.

This

No one is born in the wrong body, how ridiculous. I don't tell my disabled child they were born in the wrong body.

Well quite, but I don’t ’pop up’ on issues that I don’t care about, to tell posters that do care that I don’t care about them. Over and over and over. There’s disagreeing (fine if you can put some sort of argument across to back it up), and there’s just constantly just saying how much you don’t care and that because it doesn’t affect or bother you, no one should be bothered. Nope.

It’s not ‘tarring all with the same brush’. It’s recognising that males are the more problematic sex class back up by stats, and that women deserve and need their own SEX based spaces (and sports) for privacy and dignity. No one cares that you don’t care, you don’t get to give away that right for those who do on their behalf.

It shouldn’t be this difficult to understand but evidently it is.