Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

Legally, this is not about being 'afraid' of particular men, but respecting women's rights to single sex spaces, as per the law.

Boards like AIBU? Until someone (you appear to have this gift) is able to tell the good men from the bad men, this includes the ones who feel differently about themselves, safeguarding measures get put in place. Sex segregation is one of them.

Kind of like you are statistically very unlikely to ever be burgled but I bet you lock your door when you leave the house eh?

It’s not even about being safe. Privacy and dignity come into it. I don’t want to get changed or be in close toilet proximity to the nice males in my life who I know would never harm a fly.

And the tired old ‘they used to treat gay people like this’ trope. Being gay doesn’t negatively impact the rights of another group. Men going into spaces not for them does.

But this has been explained to you numerous times and you still pop up with how much you don’t care about the issue. Baffling.

They’ve usually been empty, never had an issue 🤷‍♀️

She would if no facilities were available for her to use. You can't exclude transmen from female spaces without providing alternate space.

But this set up means there is always piss everywhere and it stinks

It doesn't matter what people feel and think. The law is the law, and men need to stick to men's spaces, not go into women's.

They can thank the persistence of TRAs for the law having been clarified!

It’s so wild, not to mention mind numbing, that folk just can’t seem to grasp this.

It's unlikely that no third unisex disabled space wouldn't also be there. Not ideal, but works.

So what you are saying is that some of these men don’t actually believe they were “born into the wrong body” at all, they’re just lying that they were in order to gain an advantage?

I trust trans people to be reasonable adults

The only people being “unreasonable adults” are those who fail to understand that forcing trans women to use men’s facilities is entirely incompatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity.

Broad build and wig suggest otherwise.

Don't care. They're men. They have to use men's spaces.

ETA: women have those rights too. So they're entitled to single sex spaces without men present.

What errant nonsense.

Is in line with the law though. Why do you think people should break the law in order to validate a tiny minority of men?

Have you got any examples of trans women being attacked in toilets? None of the males in my life would care.

If men are being attacked by other men, in men's spaces - why would that be women's problem to solve?

The only people being “unreasonable adults” are those who fail to understand that forcing women to allow males in female single sex facilities is entirely incompatible with their dignity, health, safety, privacy and humanity.

And me.

I was asking why it was funny?

Great. But you don't get to consent on behalf of other women.

You understand that, right?

So set up your own spaces and share with them then. You don’t get to give away consent on behalf of others.

Yes, as long as I have a private cubicle.

“Don’t care”

clearly. Which is why you are being completely unreasonable.

And where those spaces are communal with no private cubicles what then?

Which is how many of them?

I ask again Tandora. If men are attacking other men, in men's spaces, why are you making this women's problem to solve?