Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

The police are useless (and captured). He was breaking the law. Of course it's criminal. He's harassing women in a women's space. Breach of the peace at the very least. I'd be ringing 999 if I were you if he comes back again.

I do take umbrage at you saying you thought he looked ok initially. It doesn't matter what he looks like. He's a man. Keep him out of our spaces.

Honestly in a world this mad I think Id seriously consider not providing access to the toilets full stop. Stops the potential for drama .

Hi, thanks for replying - have you got any case law or evidence i can say to them to help enforce this if the situation happens again.

Without outing myself, our business is near to a building commonly used by the trans society at a local university so i expect this will happen again

due to the nature of our business (food) we are required to provide toilets unfortunately.

Outrageous behaviour. Really pi**es me off.
Can you put keypadsl locks on each loo door and customers have to come and get the code from you so that you can give them the appropriate code for the appropriate loo? A bit extreme but it would solve the issue in future.

I feel for you but unfortunately don’t know what the answer is.

Could you keep the key behind the counter and only available on request?

It might stop some people from asking for the wrong key, and make it a little more difficult for those who won’t respect female only spaces.

What was he even doing in the toilet? Your post makes it sound like he was just loitering in there?

Im curious about the setup. You run a small shop, with one toilet for males and one for females. A customer came to you and said there was a man in the loo, so you went to investigate and heard a man's voice.
Who was this person talking to in the toilet? If they were in the toilet and the other customer had time to walk to you and tell you there's a man in there, was this person waiting in i assume a seperate sink area (as they werent using the actual toilet when you spoke to them) for a woman to finish using the actual toilet? In which case were they talking to another customer while they were on the loo or were they on the phone? Or had they already finished by the time you got to them and were washing their hands and on the way to leave anyway?
I know this isnt the topic at hand but im curious if they were with a friend or had started talking to a stranger in the loo (in which case congrats on how busy your shop is!)

Unless you're a cafe with several sit down tables, I'd say scrap the customer loos. If a woman asks to use the loo just let her.
That sounds horrible. You can bar that guy from your shop of course as it's your property. But it feels like targeted behaviour. Sad to say that if I were you I'd just stop offering that facility.

this could work and is honestly something I haven't thought of.

It's a shame that people have to cause issues for us! - If a trans woman asks for the female key and insists they were born biologically female can I refuse to give it to them? I assume so but (apparently) it's against the law for a business to use a persons physical image to determine if they are a woman or trans woman?

Costa in ashford has a good setup, its a single toilet with sink as a unit so only one person at a time can use it

to be fair he was using it. Apologies if my original post wasn't clear, we have a cat cafe, when I say there are two toilets I mean 2 sets of toilets, one for biological females and one for biological males.

we are required to have toilets, we have a cat cafe, it's a legal? and insurance requirement.

it did happen, why would it not have?..

+1 also trying to understand this. Without sharing this information it makes your story sound like ragebait.

hi, apolgoies i clarified above, we have 2 toilets, like one set for males and one for females, this isn't ragebait, no reason to do that...

Haha this is nonsence. It’s not criminal to use a toilet.

I'm honestly confused about this, I thought the SC judgement made it so only biological women could use the female toilets, however apparently this is only civil and not criminal law? if so, how can this be enforced, it's not like someone Potentially using the wrong bathroom is going to provide their ID so we can sue them is it?...

So you could see his face while he was on the toilet? Had they not used it yet? How did you have time to physically see them while using the toilet, argue, phone the police and debate laws with them… surely man uses wrong toilet and then flushes, washes hands and drama is over? Absolutely not ok to use the wrong toilet but your OP paints it like they were loitering in the toilet and refusing to leave

A male in a female space once asked to leave is causing harassment to the person who asked if they do not.

Self ID is NOT the law in the UK.

I like the code idea for the doors.

No it's not criminal to use the toilet but causing alarm and distress to women is.

I take it you have a small toilet block with a few cubicles in each for your customers @coffeeandmycats

Like did you ask him to leave while he was having a week with the door open? You said you asked him to leave and he refused, how long did he stay for?

Absolute nonsense.

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