Why can't people respect the rules around toilets!?!?

[coffeeandmycats]

I’m really angry and just need to get this off my chest. Me and my sister run a small shop, just the two of us and a couple of customer toilets, one for biological women, one for men, signs on the door. Never had any trouble. Until today.
A regular female customer comes up looking pretty upset, says there’s a man in the women’s loo. I go in to check. At first it sort of looked okay, hair, maybe a trans woman? But then I heard a deep voice, saw stubble and a broad build, a wig that looked like a last-minute costume. It was clearly a bloke who didn’t pass. Not even close.
I said politely, this is the women’s loo, please leave. He stared at me and said flat out, “I was born female.” Not I identify as a woman, he literally claimed he was biologically female. I asked him to go and he refused.
So I rang 101, didn’t want drama and wasn’t sure what rights we had as shop owners. The police said we can’t challenge how someone describes themselves. If he says he was born female, that’s it. We’re not allowed to question it based on how he looks. And since no laws were broken, they won’t come unless he’s being abusive or refusing to follow reasonable requests after shouting multiple times.
They also confirmed that the new Supreme Court judgment about women-only spaces is civil law, not criminal. That means even though legally women are defined by birth, you still can’t challenge someone in the moment just because they say they’re female.
I looked into it after, and yep, the Supreme Court (in For Women Scotland v Scottish Ministers) ruled that “woman” in the Equality Act 2010 means biologically female. But that applies to protecting women-only spaces under civil law. It doesn’t let us stop someone on the spot from walking into the wrong loo. The police still can’t act if someone says they’re female, even if it’s clearly false.
This bloke walked into the women’s loo, lied about being born female, made women uncomfortable, and we’ve got no legal leg to stand on to stop him. Women customers left feeling unsafe.
So what exactly are we supposed to do? Sit back and let it happen because the law only kicks in later on? Are we just meant to trust someone who’s lying about their sex to decide what sexed spaces they can use?
It feels like women’s rights are just words, no power in real life. Anyone else run into this mess in their business? I'm nearly losing my mind over how absurd this is.

Wow, impressive that you have room for 3 separate toilets (2 of them with 3 stalls or urinals) for your small cat cafe. Also, didn't you encounter this customer (who presumably had to pay) when they came in?

That's a lot of toilets for a small cafe! 3 x male, 3 x female and 1 x disabled? Do you have staff loos too?
I don't think it's a huge issue tbh in this case. How many of us have used the men's loos when the ladies have enormous queues? I have many times and also the disabled if desperate after checking there were no visibly disabled people.
Maybe because I've often worked in offices where loos are shared between men and women and whatever else they may identify as.
Communal changing rooms are a different ball game but I can't get hot and bothered about loos.

Enough with this nonsense.

Talkinpeace is giving you the correct information, OP.

However, I don't think asking here is going to help you. It sounds like you'd be better getting proper legal advice.

Single user gender neutral toilets are legal.

A bloke in a dress and a wig booked a one hour slot with the cats? You gotta laugh 🤪

Yes, we are. There are many reported instances of women being misidentified. I have personal experiences myself and my friends likewise. I also know transmen who pass unquestioned. You cannot tell someone's sex from their outward presentation. Stop pretending you can.

I would want any cat cafe I attend to have a very good sense of who's been admitted at any time, for the safety of the cats. And yet you didn't twig this person when they checked in?

Nope.

The judgement clarified that the word “sex” as used in the act refers to “birth sex” and that “woman” means women “at birth”. That means that protections from discrimination in the act should be understood as referring to these groups , although the judgement also clarified circumstances where protections for women may apply to trans women (eg if through gender reassignment they are perceived to be women) or enable exclusion of trans men (if through gender reassignment they are perceived to be men) .

I'm completely confused. You have the right to ask anyone to leave your premises and you don't even have to give a reason. Why didn't you just tell him to go?

What always interests me is that we only ever seem to hear about men wanting access to women’s areas ( bathrooms, changing rooms etc) but we don’t hear about women demanding access to men’s facilities.
I wonder why ?

Paragraph 212

So far as sex discrimination is concerned, paragraph 26 of Schedule 3 provides that the provision of separate services for persons of each sex will not constitute unlawful sex discrimination in the provision of services (contrary to section 29) where joint services for both sexes would be less effective and such provision is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

Gender identity does not change sex

Keypad is a great idea

The court also categorically stated in paragraph 2 of the judgement that they were specifically NOT stating this “Transwomen are men.”

@MistyGreenAndBlue

But the toilets in this instance are not that

I assumed from your original post that you had two self-contained toilets, labelled M and F, and was going to suggest that you simply marked both as 'toilet'. However, it appears you actually have two sets of 3 stalls (plus an accessible toilet)? This is quite a high number for a cafe (I go to much larger cat cafe - based on the number of cats you have - and they have less) so if you could arrange them all as individual spaces you would get around this problem. Obviously this would be an expense but I expect more businesses to do this in future

You can if you aren't a complete idiot.

One disabled unisex loo with wash basin would be best, covers all bases then.
Born a female but has stubble. I would have peed myself laughing tbh

Yes?

This Paragraph states that it is not unlawful to provide separate facilities for men and women on the basis of (birth) sex where it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.

I'm also surprised you have time to post about this at length, considering it is a Saturday afternoon. Isn't a weekend afternoon an especially busy time for cat cafes? I know it is for the one near me.

Where were his cats at the time?

Oh dear. Im afraid it is YOU who lacks understanding here. The SC judgement is ALREADY law. The guidance is just that GUIDANCE.

And the laws says no men in women only spaces. It also says that even men with a GRC count as men in these circumstances.

OP Do not listen to this person. They clearly have an agenda.

They could ask for their birth certificate.

This may help OP. It's long, but read from "What does the Supreme Court ruling mean for toilets?" onwards: https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

Sounds like one of them was on his head

The judgement doesn’t say this.