Wwyd

[loveforautumn]

My mum and dad have a holiday home in Spain, lovely places and we've had some fab holidays over the years anyway, the upkeep of the places obviously costs and we're expected to contribute when using it which is fair enough, I wouldn't not and want to help them out. My sister however keeps going over there for free,no contribution or anything, hasn't even mentioned it. My parents just let het go and dont say anything.
What's annoying me is we're still expected to pay and if we didn't something would be said.
Am I right to feel annoyed that they go for free and im still expected to pay? We havent gone since finding out they aren't paying as i dont think its fair.

You cannot recall that you commented about people who could not have lived and worked in "those areas" where, according to you, everyone is a benefits scrouger - I said I have done both. If you had lived in such areas you would know that it is anot a life of luxury, and people who woouldn't work are a minority. Do keep up - it was you started those claims, not me.

I am not naive. I am also not a bigot. The fact that (according to you) your entire family are lazy scroungers is not eveidence that others are. You keep playing on insults and anecdotes - why not refute the FACTS that people have posted?

Gosh I have definitely never heard that said on here. But to be fair I think that a lot of these posts on here "are largely a figment of the right wing imagination". And I would be quite correct. I especially love the "ratchet it up a notch" posts like this one:

• my sister gets a free pass on paying and I don't
• did I forget to mention in my first post that they claim benefits and have 6 children?
• did I forget to mention they sit around all day and are able to work in my first two posts?
• Did I forget to mention they have even had their flights paid for?
• Have a managed to sneak in any other benefit bashing stuff and have I made it too obvious?
• Oh goody, somebody else has brought us the disabled scroungers, so I don't have to.

A method otherwise known as "light the blue paper and stand back".

And people like to call others naive????

How could I have done neither? Most of my family and the community I grew up in are unemployed by choice. As I’ve already stated.

Do you often feel the need to insult people who have a different opinion to you? Do you think that might result in people you “work with” saying what they think you want to hear?

As an aside, please look up what the word “bigot” means.

There was a programme on TV a few years ago which dealt with a small seaside town where it appeared everyone was unemployed - Jaywick-on-Sea. I'd never even heard of it before the programme (though did know nearby Clacton and Camber Sands, went there as a child). Such places do exist. It was quite funny that Trump picked up on it, highlighting Jaywick as typical of how the benefits system does not work in the UK - typical of him. It was an interesting programme, quite an eye opener really. Properties there are very cheap if anyone fancies a seaside retreat :-).

However most places in the UK are not like that and the majority of people do go to work and not benefit scroungers.

So you can't dispute the facts and will continue to rely on anecdotes that are unevidenced. Thanks, but I know what "bigot" means.

Dispute what facts?

I’m disputing the claim that there aren’t tens/ hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who choose to not work and instead live entirely on benefits. That it is impossible to choose not to work in the UK.

You’ve made the rest up because you’re furious someone dare have a different perspective to you.

Jaywick is a UK phenomenon - it was built (badly) as a "holiday home" settlement for retirees and workers. It is isolated and so it is a trap - you can't easily get out because you have nothing to do so with. Although the same problem has existed in other "seaside" areas - Blackpool is a good example also - nowhere has been up against the the same degree of social and economic isolation as Jaywick. Not in the UK anyway. It is a phenomenon more coomonly found in the USA though (I wouldn't expect Trump to know or care about that since he doesn't care about poor people at all). Much of the population of Jaywick are families that were attracted by employment that specifically served the tourism / hospitality "boom" but became trapped by worthless housing and lack of investment in infrastructure/ education etc etc. It in no way typifies UK communities.

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2023/oct/22/sunspot-jaywick-sands-review-hat-projects-a-ray-of-hope-for-the-beleaguered-essex-resort

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvglel81y6jo

Note that the majority of that "investment" in the second article is going on sea defences. Most of which will go to large companies not based there. For a fraction of the price you could upskill everyone with training, give tham relocation grants and let the sea have it! Had you ever actually been there you would realise just how hopeless, not worthless, this kind of community is.

What exactly have I made up? You can dispute anything you like, you have so far not produced a single fact to back up your anecdotes about your lazy family being typical. You have just made stuff up.

You made up that I called my family lazy. That I said all people on benefits are scroungers.

I replied to this comment “feistyoneyouare · Yesterday 15:59
'A lot of people'? Do share your sources/figures, pp, I'd be scintillated to know exactly how many of these wastrels there are and how they're getting away with it... 🤔”

Saying there are plenty of people and communities for whom this is a normal way of life and that denying that is naive or ill informed.

Nothing more. Nothing less.

It’s not the money but the principle of it. Sister isn’t even making a token contribution. So many people stopped at one kid because they can’t afford another and yet others just have kids they can’t afford and then want a council house.

You said:
"Well, my grandad, my dad, my four uncles, 8 of my cousins, countless people I went to school with." when asked to descibe how many "wastrels" there were, you descibed them as part of "generational unemployment by choice", and went on to say "Listen, my relatives and dozens of people I’ve known all my life are happy having their lives paid for and never having to set an alarm." Are you now suggesting that you think they are not lazy? So no, I didn't make that up. Perhaps you made an error and they are go-getters unfortunately out of work through no fault of their own?

SInce I did not say that you said all people on benefits are scroungers I won't bother with answering that one.

But you said "I’m disputing the claim that there aren’t tens/ hundreds of thousands of people in the UK who choose to not work and instead live entirely on benefits" - so you are suggesting that hundreds of thousands of people chhose not to work - you have been repeatedly asked to prove that and have failed to do so or to respond to that question at all.

You have said that choosing to be on benefits is a normal way of life for entire communities. Prove it.

Since you say that we are ill-informed please inform us with FACTS and not anecdotal stories about your family, who I am quite happy for you to describe as wastrels if that is your opinion of them - but just because that's what your family is like, in your opinion, does not mean it adds anything to an informed discussion based on proveable facts.

I'll be happy to discuss this further with you when you provide some of those facts asked for instead of unfounded attacks on people and communities based on nothing other than narrow minded opinion.

They choose not to work. They’re not lazy.

Their houses are immaculate and they are always out and about. They exercise and they help their neighbours with odd jobs.

They do have a lot of spare time after all.

I never said they were lazy.

How do you propose I “prove” entire communities of people who choose not to work exist? Except to say, I know them, I grew up in them. The government tend not to know which ones are choosing not to work because it might affect their ability to claim benefits.

Why are you so angry about this? It’s bizarre. They exist. Get over it.

I am not angry about anything. You are the one making claims you cannot substantiate. I repeat - facts please. Get over it.

Hear, hear. That particular pp isn't averse to a bit of projection themselves, given that I found myself being told I'd 'never come into contact with' generational unemployment/people choosing not to work simply because I made the general remark that it wasn't necessary to come into contact with an issue to be aware of it.

I'm sure @Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim would be edified to learn that I actually grew up in one of England's poorest towns and have absolutely come into contact with this phenomenon, multiple times. (I still believe people exaggerate its prevalence despite this, btw.) I never actually said I hadn't encountered it, pp merely chose to interpret what I did say in a way that fed their knee-jerk assumptions.

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim you seem to want us to take our word for it that your lived experience translates to hard fact, but you can't seem to substantiate it in any way other than anecdotally. It shouldn't be hard to see why you're encountering disagreement.

Who are they borrowing money from? How do they pay it back?

I don’t know why you’re being so blustering and outraged.

I said it exists and that if you think it doesn’t, it’s because you’ve not come into contact with it.

You’ve simultaneously said you know it exists because you grew up in communities like it as well as stating it doesn’t really happen.

All I’ve said is it happens. I haven’t made personal attacks. I haven’t made sweeping generalisations about the people who participate.

You’re both getting very het up about things I haven’t actually written and reading into and twisting what I have put to suit your own agenda.

If it doesn’t happen and it’s not a problem, you wouldn’t have grown up in communities it happens in. You wouldn’t be able to work in them.

You both need to calm down and stop getting so angry about someone having a different perspective or being willing to say something different to what you think we’re supposed to say.

I can't speak for the other pp but I am neither blustering nor outraged, my reply to you was perfectly calm. You just didn't happen to like its content. It is rather ironic, though, that you're accusing me of twisting your words while you continue to twist mine, I never said or even hinted that I thought it 'doesn’t really happen', that's not at all the same thing as believing numbers are exaggerated. And it's quite ironic too that you're accusing others of being unable to tolerate a 'different perspective' while seemingly finding it impossible to accept that not everyone shares your own views. You sound a lot more 'angry' yourself than anyone you've replied to on this thread, tbh.

Cool. So we agree there are plenty of people who choose to not work.
✌🏼

@Thedevilhasfinallycaughtupwithhim Again, you have claimed that "tens/hundreds of thousands" of benefit claimants don't want to work. Prove it with facts and evidence, not anecdotes about your family.

On the face of it YANBU for being annoyed at the inequality of it but YAB slightly U to make it such a thing that you won't go again. Especially when I don't really think you've given full facts

Do you and your partner have any DC? You say your DSis and her DP are both on benefits and do have DC, sounds like this is their only opportunity to go abroad and whilst it's not essential to go abroad I sort of understand why it's been offered. Understand you being annoyed but have you actually spoken to your parents about it? How much do they actually ask you for? Do you stay with them or go when they aren't there, same question about your DSis? Do you like your nieces/nephews?

This thread has a lot of comments bashing people on benefits but without hearing their side it's not fair to judge a situation.

I honestly am.slightly envious of anyone with family with a holiday home abroad or anywhere by the seaside with enough space to host. Even at token cost it is unbelievably lucky, holidays are absolutely extortionate and most people do not have these options. To just not go again seems a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face

Your sister and her BF sound rather like lowlifes, and there's nothing you can do about that. Your parents, on the other hand, are the ones that truly surprise me. That they could afford to buy a vacation house in the first place would indicate that they're not strapped for cash. It's possible, I guess, that they need every little bit they can bilk out of their kids, and if that's the case, maybe they should just sell the vacation house. As a parent myself, I would never dream of charging one of my children while letting another off the hook, even if I favored one over the other.... because that would make it really obvious.