To wonder if there'll be a revolt?

[TreatTreat]

In the country that's stretched to its limits, today it was announced that Keir has agreed with Mr Macron that just 50 illegal migrants per week will be sent away.

I know so many people are totally fed up with the state of the country.

Will there be protests?

Not genocide, just becoming a minority.

That will have huge consequences for the country; If enough of our citizens have a belief system and culture that is different to the present dominant one, this change will eventually be reflected in our political institutions. A Muslim Labour MP has recently called for the prohibition of the 'desecration of religious texts' , for example :(www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/keir-starmer-blasphemy-law-pmqs-b2654819.html)

The existing country will change to fit the new majority, not the other way around. This is simply logical, not any sort of conspiracy theory.

Whether this is a good thing or not is open to debate, but it will happen if things continue as they are. Calling 'bigotry' when people voice concerns, instead of having a rational and open conversation is one of the main drivers of social tension.

What do you think will happen if/when our population reaches this point?

The disabled are already in the firing line, so that's a convenient one.

I have only just realised this buy a hat trick to me sounds like it should be a 4. Not a 3. That should start with a T if we were to live in a sane world. Or is it in the TRI-ck.

Ignore me. Its warm outside.

I feel it needs to be sorted somehow. As a country, our resources aren't infinite.

That wasn’t a problem when the Tories were in power.

Exactly this, there are numerous safe countries bordering Ukraine: Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Moldova and Romania...

People were literally opening their homes to Ukrainian refugees. But anyone coming from elsewhere can drown as far as most people are concerned if they don't seek refuge in the first 'safe' country.

The idea that we are the only country to provide financial support is mad too, France have a higher weekly allowance for asylum seekers, along with the opportunity to work after 6 months.

So immigrants are the entire problem in the country are they @MightyDandelionEsq ? All gone "back home" and it'll be the land of milk and honey? Paradise regained.

Genocide or people here having less kids than those countries and them coming here for all we still have to offer? Really not complicated to understand

Quite. It is just human behaviour. Brits have been moving overseas and forming unintegrated groups for years. It is isn't the immigrants that are the problem. Amazon deliveries and out of town retail parks have had a far greater impact on the nature of town and villages cultures.

So is he suggesting that there is a black economy for welfare payments? that really isn’t very clear and no other news source seems to clarify.

Macron could also practice what he preaches as the French black economy is comparable. The welfare system in both France and the UK for asylum seekers is also comparable.

talking out of his hat there I think.

i completely agree with you. Having a thriving black economy is generally bad. It will be highly disruptive to interfere with it which is probably why they don’t. It’s very different from suggesting that the direct benefits asylum seekers receive is “too generous”

Do you understand the difference between illegal immigrants and asylum seekers?

No, because most people are all mouth and no trousers.

And to be fair, I can't think of a single problem I've ever faced in my life that's been caused by an immigrant.

This is the issue with the debate, people get hyperbolic.

I stand by that as a population increases dramatically, resources will become finite. We already have a system where 53% are taking out more than they put in. Adding more unskilled labour into the market and suppressing wages isn’t going to help that. That goes for illegal and legal migration.

Sorry I agree with some of your points but was responding to your comment:

if we want to get serious on wealth redistribution, we need a serious discussion on immigration without cries of racism.

A serious discussion with the public is not possible whilst so many have such a poor grasp on the practicalities.

Macron could also practice what he preaches as the French black economy is comparable.

Maybe, but at least the police/Gendarmes/customs regularly run checks on businesses that employ seasonal or casual labour to make sure employees are legit. You even have to be cautious about taking an odd job with limited hours such as cleaning, because checks do take place.

Even our local farms that employ kids for rhe harvest have to make sure the books are up to date, social contributions are paid, pay slips issued and everyone working there is actually entitled to do so..

It doesn't stop the black economy but it means people are generally reluctant to get involved.

I do understand the difference between illegal and legal. In my other posts I mentioned the Tory Boris wave of legal migration. Legal migration is also used as a way of fiddling our GDP numbers to keep us from a recession because it’s all based on GDP. Our GDP has risen but our GDP per capita has fallen as immigration has risen (standard of living has decreased).

If you are working in the black economy you’re not protected (issue for the person), but your earnings are not also registered (issue for the tax man). If you’re given right to remain you have full access to the welfare state (I believe 46% were last year but there is a huge backlog). Even when not given the right to remain, if you’re in the process you’re still entitled to welfare (albeit more limited). £47 or £8 if you’re being given accommodation by the U.K. - this still adds up in a time where disabled people are losing their benefits.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/immigration-system-statistics-year-ending-september-2024/how-many-people-are-granted-asylum-in-the-uk

The "revolt" will be at the ballot box where Labour will, rightly, get absolutely stuffed and consigned to history for 2 or 3 terms (again!).

Probably a Reform win as neither Labour nor the Tories have the balls to deal with the problem properly.

Thank you for clarifying.

I totally agree. Already on some of my posts it’s the usual rhetoric of implied racism, stupidity, ignorance etc.

The numbers don’t care about people’s feelings. Unfortunately we’re now a feelings based society it seems and seeing facts and numbers isn’t enough anymore.

Empathy is one thing, suicidal empathy is another. I have no issue if democratically people want never ending immigration, but they can’t also whinge that we don’t have a working NHS, good enough welfare or enough housing that isn’t a slum.

I was about to answer, but you have done it better. I am gobsmacked that a British person doesn´t know this.

It's laughable that voters believe that Reform will deal with "the problem". Or any other problem.

@Katiesaidthatwhat is your view on what to do, should we be more open to people on this list?

Legal immigration (via visas) , seeking asylum and illegal immigration are three different things. Asylum seekers are not illegal, they may arrive via an illegal route but it is still legal to claim asylum (indeed it is very difficult to arrive legally). Asylum seekers get benefits when they are being processed. illegal immigrants are difficult to account for - they aren’t official and they don’t have access to benefits or anything official really - they are the ones likely working in the blank economy.

Asylum seekers can get the legal right to work while waiting for their claim. You are muddling togrther illegal immigration and asylum seekers

Far right conspiracy theories are not difficult to understand.

There’s a lot to unpack here but we shall disagree on one point - you’re illegal if you turn up on a boat or lorry Irrespective if you claim asylum. End of story to me and probably for a lot of Brits. I don’t really care about the grey areas in the law, turning up at a country with no papers is deeply concerning from a security aspect too. It’s a legal loophole, nothing more.

Being illegal and housed in a hotel or temporary accommodation with 3 square meals and nhs treatment is a benefit. It may not be a lot to you, but to a lot of people in poverty right now it is. There is also a weekly amount given to them whilst they’re processed so it’s not ‘nothing’. If you come from a country with nothing, even a measly £8 a week in a safer country is ‘something’.

Thank you for being courteous but you and I are going to disagree if we carry on I believe. I think a lot of this debate shows a disconnect from those who have resource so don’t see an issue as they are unaffected and those who are currently fighting a system for a crumb and watching those of no entitlement receive that crumb. So thank you but I’ll bow out now.

edit : 95% of boat crossings claimed asylum so this illegal vs asylum is turning into a nonsensical debate. They’re the same thing

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn01403/

I don´t live in Britain, that is for you to decide. I´m also from a country that had quite a broad empire and that in itself is a magnet for these people, as to them there is a link, a familiarity. Basically, you can´t house the whole wide world in Europe, empires or no empires. But clamping down more decisively on businesses who employ illegals is a good start as is identity cards. You´re an island, you have it better than others. This is such a complex issue as whatever any country does needs international cooperation. No such thing as a simple, straightforward solution, and anyone who promises that is lying.

Well yes eventually. They could come by boat from Libya to Italy or Malta. It’s a more dangerous route. Historically you can see that once a migration route is closed down that it lower numbers temporarily.

Ultimately the numbers of asylum seekers coming to Europe (and therefore the Uk) has more to due with push factors like conflict than pull factors anyway.

I was mainly pointing out that Greece doing this does not mean more people would go to the UK. The UK is not the first country they hit.

They are really not. The UK genuinely has a a lot illegal immigration. Through visa overstays.

asylum seekers aren’t illegal even you think it’s the same. It’s just a fact that they are not. Indisputable in law.

It’s very difficult to talk about immigration if people don’t have a grasp of the difference between migrants arriving. Different issues, different solutions.