To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

He is 11. He has no concept of what it even is to be gay.

FFS this is why schools need to stop banging on about this stuff. It's adult stuff. Not kid stuff.

Honestly, just looking at this, expecting an 11 year old to absorb and take all this on seems utterly ridiculous to me.

This 'born in the body' narrative is incredibly problematic.

Tolerance isn’t the same thing as outright acceptance, and sometimes tolerance is the best you’re realistically going to get. You cannot force uniformity of thought no matter how much you may wish to, and trying to is highly likely to result in achieving the exact opposite.

Yes, I agree with this.
Any child, or adult, has the right to withdraw or remove themselves from friends or situations that they aren't comfortable with.
Automatically declaring that this is a phobia is likely to reinforce the negative opinion rather than challenge it effectively.

You don't think at 11 year old can have a concept of being gay? I did.

So gay kids get shunned. No not ok at all and no school would think so.

My son came out at 11, he said he always knew so the homophobic language he was subjected to at school led to a massive breakdown and need for a lot of support from CAMHS and an LGBT support group. The perpetrators were dealt with severely as there are policies in place and zero tolerance as regards homophobia.

You cannot force close and genuine friendships.

Schools can insist on politeness between acquaintances and come down hard on bullying, but they cannot insist on anything beyond the surface level amiability you’d expect from coworkers who have to exist in the same space.

Demonising kids for things they have absolutely no concept of is completely ridiculous.

Wow. Thats a bit absolutist. What about the mental health of an 11 yr old boy trying to navigate the tricky years of puberty and developing his social skills while being preached to and gaslit by his school and mum on important topics?

Are you saying that only the feelings or thoughts of a gay child have any value to you?

Do you understand what a child is? Why are you putting adult issues and values onto him?

His friend is not sexually active (hopefully) so doesn’t actually know if he is really gay or just trying out ideas. He’s a kid.

I hope some of the adults on this thread with such adult expectations and harsh opinions of children don’t have influence in many kids lives.

You may have done. Others don’t.

Try and accept that other people have a right to freedom if thought as well as you.

I never said others don't. It was thr poster I was responding to who made the absolute statement, maybe aim your condescending comment at them.

Lots of kids get shunned. The non sporty kids, the ginger kids, the neglected kids. It’s not ok to be mean but we also can’t force kids to be friends with people.

You may think you are doing a good thing in demanding that every child must be friends a child that thinks they might be gay but you’re not. You are modelling the bullying behaviour you think you are calling out.

I didn’t mean to be condescending. Your comment sounded like you thought that because you knew you were gay at 11, that other 11 yr olds must also have a full understanding of sexual orientation and their feelings around it.

If that’s not what you meant then great - we obviously agree that everyone deserves freedom of thought.

The post stated that 11 year olds do not have a concept of being gay. I simply said that I did. But apparently that means I dont believe in freedom of thought.

He's 11. If he's not started puberty then his understanding of sex is going to be abstract- he hasn't had sexual feelings so how can he be expected to understand how sexual attraction works?

There's a massive difference between a 13 year old and an 11 year old. I can still remember the shitshow that ensued when my final year primary school class had a sex education lesson and the teacher stood in front of the class and announced "the word sex is nothing to be embarrassed about"- cue 30 ten and eleven year olds in hysterics because the teacher had said "sex". Fast forward a few years and everyone was obsessing about who fancied who and who got off with who at the school disco. Difference: we'd been through puberty and experienced sexual feelings.

Nope not at all and thankfully schools won’t tolerate the shunning of children for being gay- because it’s homophobic.

So he needs to be put on the tight track as he will encounter huge difficulties further up the school and within the workplace if he continues with such homophobic thoughts.

Lots of replies to take on board .

I had a chat with Dad , he wasn’t aware of these things our son said and he said he had a bit of a similar issue with his own stepchild- which I was unaware of , we don’t communicate the best.
He was actually quite level headed in the conversation , he said he does say some comments about 2 genders etc , but that it’s in “jest” . He did actually seem to recognise the influence he is having and agreed that “maybe” he is being more influential than he realised and that isn’t his intention. He’s going to draw it back.

I appreciate all the replies , I haven’t read all as there are a lot but I am a bit disappointed to see it is veering towards arguments about different views .

My point in posting was to try to prevent my son having unkind views and expressing them and in the world we live in, despite your own opinions , I think we should be kind enough to not let our views have an impact on the mental health and well being of others . Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean people need to hear your opinion on that - what harm does it do to just be supportive .

Saddens me the world our children are growing up in.

I won’t be replying more as I don’t really want to be a part of continuing a thread that could contain comments that are upsetting for others but I thank you all for your suggestions and advice .

If being gay is a lifestyle choice then by that argument being straight is also a lifestyle choice so ask your son and partner when they choose to be straight and what prompted that choice

He's 11. There are many years before that conversation would be of any use.

Which might be the clue that it's not particularly fruitful to pursue the issue at the age he is.

But by that same token, if your son is picking up the message that his feelings are potentially harmful, that they need to be reined in, that masculinity might be toxic, etc; only to then pick up the message that here are two other categories of men who don’t need to worry about that, and we’ll celebrate them being exactly who they want to be, etc – is it any wonder that he should get a bit resentful?

My understanding is that teenage boys are almost universally of the same mind as your son. I really don’t think you have anything to worry about.

@Ereshkigalangcleg I'm not sure what you think "queer" means, but to clarify it for you it doesn't necessarily mean trans. It means either not straight or not cis or both.

@Calmorchaos
I think we should be kind enough to not let our views have an impact on the mental health and well being of others
That applies to everybody, right?
Just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean people need to hear your opinion on that - what harm does it do to just be supportive.
Why am I expected to support something that I don't believe in and that has a negative impact on my mental health, wellbeing and safety? Where is the reciprocal #BeKind?