To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

I didn’t report it as I prefer these ridiculous posts to stand but maybe it was because you accused me of sharing links that spread ‘online radicalisation’. 🤷‍♀️ when anyone (including you) can read them for themselves and deduce that that is abject nonsense.

I'd hazard a guess you broke the talk guidelines.

I've written to ask for clarification as it's not clear to me why it would be ok to express the opinion that

• trans rights activists/ groups are grooming children into transition, leading to "mutilation and sterlisation",

but it's not ok to express the view that

• there are advocacy organisations who are [word I won't repeat] people online to promote transphobia.

I wasn't aware that it was against the rules to express such an opinion. It wasn't intended as a personal attack, simply my honest opinion of what is happening due to warped information being spread online by these types of organisations.

However, if it is against the guidelines to express such an opinion, I apologise to both you and Mumsnet for breaking guidelines.

You mean the male who knew he was male, and continued to beat up women anyway?
Yes, hes a liar and a cheat.

I mean the boxer who was assigned female at birth. Raised female. Is legally female. Who was eligible to participate in the boxing competition under Olympic rules. Who clearly has a (unspecified) DSD (having previously failed an unspecified 'gender test' for a different competition - presumably this test was chromosomal). Who was widely castigated for deception, cheating and violence simply for participating in a woman's sporting competition as they were allowed to do/

Why are you calling him “they” then?

I imagine that comment counted as a “negative sweeping generalisation” Tandora, which as you’ve pointed out before, you are aware are against MN guidelines.

Because I didn't want to trigger you and have the entire argument be about language and pronouns.

If I were in a safe space I would obviously use "she". I was trying to be respectful of your beliefs in my use of language, while still being respectful of the person in question.

Sure.

"negative sweeping generalisations" about trans people are not allowed.
They are also not allowed against "gender critical feminists". (I find the latter very odd as a rule, but accept that those are the rules, so I will respect them).

My statement was not related to making a negative sweeping judgement against either group. My statement was about the online activities of specific organisations like transgender trend.

He's a male with 5-ARD, a male specific DSD.
He failed two tests which were performed by verified labs.

He was aware of being male, and fought in the olympics because the IOC based their decision on his passport rather than his sex.

That is deception, it is cheating, and the fact that an obvious and known male was permitted to assault women on his way to the top just goes to show the rot that has affected policy and society as a result of pandering to male feelings rather than material reality.

Here’s a few things we know about Imane Khelif:

he has allegedly failed multiple sex tests, both testosterone and chromosome based

his test details were leaked and if genuine they show he is genetically male

his trainer said he was genetically male in an interview

its likely that he has 5-ARD, an entirely male DSD shared by Caster Semenya

he was going to have to prove his sex before competing in a recent tournament he had previously been looking forward to

he pulled out of said tournament at the last minute

If you can’t justify your attack on TT with facts, then it’s just part of a “negative sweeping generalisation” that you’ve made, isn’t it

Feel free to post some actual specific evidence backing up the smear you made.

I think all you can do is focus on listening and asking him questions. How does he know people have a choice about their sexual orientation? Can he describe what he finds so wrong about it? What does 'supporting' it even mean? And just listen, don't bother trying to convince him.

Maybe it's worth asking his dad to keep his views on the topic to himself, so your son can make up his own mind without being influenced by either of you.

Also, why do you find it strange that “negative sweeping generalisations” aren’t allowed against gender critical feminists as a group? Why would they be?

He was allowed to compete simply on the basis he has a female passport - which he may have only got as he was mis-sexed at birth due to his DSD.

The rules are now changing in world boxing thankfully and mandatory sex testing is going to be introduced.

You do not know what type of DSD this person has.

They failed two unspecified "gender tests" (presumably chromosomal) performed as part of eligibility rules for a different competition.

This person was assigned female at birth, raised female, is legally female and was eligible to participate in this sporting competition under the rules.

The vitriol thrown at this person was entirely unacceptable and shows that these types of discriminatory attitudes are not only directed a trans people, but also at people with DSDs simply because their bodies fail to conform to conventional/ social understandings of 'female' and 'male'.

The evidence is all over their website!

Because being "gender critical" is not an attribute of a person, but something that describes a particular set of ideas that a person has about feminism/ sex/ gender/ trans issues, etc.
I find it very odd that we are not allowed to make generalisations about people based on their ideas. Does this apply to reform supporters for example?

Being gender critical is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act

which I also find completely absurd for the same reasons, because, as I said, it's not a 'characteristic of a person' it's a set of ideas a person has about a topic.

Is someones religion a characteristic of that person?

Or do you not believe that religion/belief should be a protected characteristic?

I'm not sure that it should really. However, I can understand that a special case could be made for religion because it is so closely tied to ethnicity/ heritage.

But if we start saying that holding all manner of sets of ideas/ theories are protected characteristics, where does it end?

unless you post a link to something specific, no one will know what exactly you’re referring to.